[Harp-L] RE: Harp price increase-(Michael Easton)

I whole heartedly agree with Michael's comments regarding the Seydel 1847.

Like most, I started with Hohner when they pretty much had a monopoly. I had a limited endorsement deal for a while. Then in the late 80s the prices repeatedly in a short period which seemed unrelated to anything and the quality seemed to go down. Then in the early 90s I had two incidents of reeds breaking off on a draw note of two Special 20. The 2nd time was mid-solo in front of 5,000. The reed stuck to the back of my palate. I had to choke myself with my finger to get it out. Both embarassing and scarey.

I was living in Holland at the time and sent the broken reed along with the reed plate direct to Hohner in Germany. They wrote back saying that the offending reeds were made from a batch of inferior alloy which had produced instruments "not of our usual standard". The way the letter was phrased it was an admission that they had knowingly sold inferior product. When I replied pointing out this admission the reply was an offer to be a tester for a prototype of some new model. I declined and received no further response. Despite repeated requests, at no time did they ever offer to even replace what they had admitted was an inferior instrument. I've never bought another Hohner since.

I went to Lee Oskars for time then got a full endorsement deal with Herring. Their chromatics are pretty good but after a time I wasn't real happy with their diatonics and couldn't in good conscience recommend them. I gave up the deal with Herring and went back to Lee Oskars until I discovered Seydel.

The first moment I played a Seydel 1847 I thought, "Now this is a proper musical instrument!" I bought one each of the wooden comb and plastic comb versions as a trial to see which I liked better. Although the plastic comb is also a fine instrument I preferred personally the wood comb. I always liked wood but usually played plastic combs due to the usual moisture issues with wood. The 1847 suffers none of these issues and also has a unique oval opening which I also liked a lot.

I purchased a set of 8 1847 Classics. They are the best out of the pocket harmonica I've ever played. Much like going from an average guitar to a really great guitar, or any other musical instrument, they inspire better playing. I've played this set for nearly 3 years for untold hours of gigging, recording, and practicing. I just replaced the reeds on the C harp. Considering I used to replace reeds or whole instruments 3 or 4 times a year on with other brands, I can say with confidence Seydel 1847s are not the cheapest but they are certainly far and away the best value for money. I also have their Blues Session in high G, which is a cheaper model but I still believe is superior to any other brand in the same price range.

----- Original Message ----- From: <harp-l-request@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 1:49 PM
Subject: Harp-L Digest, Vol 95, Issue 6


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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Cost of harps ? / The real question is... (fjm)
  2. Harp Price increases (Michael Easton)
  3. Re: Harmonica Getting Out Of Tune (David Priestley ( for harp-L))
  4. Re: Re: Bass Harmonica - advice (Richard Hunter)
  5. Hohner Price Increase (Bill Kumpe)
  6. Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD (Mick Zaklan)
  7. RE: Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD (Brian Irving)
  8. Re: Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD (Joe Leone)
  9. Dano Chorus Pedal (Bill Kumpe)
 10. Rejoined  (joe hagins)
 11. cruciform needle punch (James F. Antaki, PhD)
 12. Re: Harp Price increases (Vern)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 05:40:50 -0700
From: fjm <bad_hat@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Cost of harps ? / The real question is...
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4E0F11D2.8090001@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 7/1/11 12:23 PM, david robbins wrote:
I don't know about you all, but I'm sick of paying good money for a harp that sounds like it came out of a cracker jacks box.



I find that as my ability in terms of playing harmonica has progressed
the quality of out of the box harmonicas has improved.  ymmv fjm


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 09:21:00 -0400
From: Michael Easton <diachrome@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Harp Price increases
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <C2DDD283-2AD9-4E2D-AAB7-64138CA2EBE9@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Not sure there is an easy answer to any of it.

I sell Hohner's, Seydel's and Suzuki's. Repair them too.

Some wholesale suppliers have cut back on the Hohner's they stock for
dealers because they are too expensive to keep in inventory.
I had to switch off 3 different Hohner suppliers because they stopped
carrying or refused to order certain chromatics that my customers
wanted.

Suzuki sells direct to the dealer so there is no middleman price
hike.  I lost recent business because of their extreme price
increase.  Hohner's pales to it.
A Suzuki Sirius chromatic is now close to $200 more at dealer cost
then  last December. Other mid to high priced Suzuki's also jumped
$200 in price at the wholesale level. As the product prices increase
the insurance value costs increase to ship them.  I cover customers
shipping costs so I have to eat the extra cost.
In this case only the mfg and Feds are making extra money.  Dealers
have to absorb the costs trying to bring in customers.
Those of us that are harp playing dealers aren't too happy to see
these price increases. It doesn't mean we reap extra income.

Seydel has seemed to maintain it's grasp on reality and what players
can afford.  I switched over to playing 1847's in 2006. At the time
they seemed expensive.
I figured with the cost being roughly 4x more then a Marine Band or
Special 20 they better last 4x as long.   I know milage varies for
different players with regards to reed life but I'm still playing the
first C and A  1847 I bought in 2006. Still with the same reeds.  My
play mostly  in the Cotton/Butterfield style so I do play them hard
with heavy vibrato.   I put away all my customs after the first year
and only play 1847's out of the box.

Being a repair tech I don't have time to mess with my own harps. I
want them ready to play  when I need them and not breaking down every
4 months to be repaired.

Invest now in good quality built harps and when the price increases
do occur you can ride the wave a bit longer instead of drowning in
replacement costs every couple of months.


Michael Easton
www.harmonicarepair.com





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:19:36 +0100
From: "David Priestley ( for harp-L)" <dmharpman@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Harmonica Getting Out Of Tune
To: Riccardo Grosso <rick.grosso82@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <4E0F28F8.6010701@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 Hi
When you draw bend  hole 4, it is the blow reed that is doing most of
the work.  In this way you can be putting more stress on the blow 4
reed, when you draw bend 4, than you may know.

You can check out what I say by taking the cover plates off your harp,
then bend the draw reed in hole 4 and when it is sounding stun the draw
reed by putting your finger on it. You will hear the note go on,
all-be-it with a different tone. So if you look at your note bending
technique to see if you could play the bend on 4 with less  air,
passing at a lower pressure. You will find that your reeds keep their
tuning for longer. A way to approach this improvement in technique would
be to try making your runs using  a lower volume. When you try this
approach you may find that the volume doesn't go down by much but the
air pressure will reduce, which is what you want & so you will get a
longer playing life out of your reeds..

Over all you can do much to help yourself by reducing the effort that
you use to get the effects that you seek. You need to get that balance
of using just enough compression to effect the bend. When you use more
power than is needed to get a bend the extra effort will go to
shortening the playing life of your harp. It will also make accurate
control of the instrument harder to manage.

When I started playing a harp would last me a week and now a harp will
last for up to ten years. You will see by checking out a video of me
playing on my website :

http://www.cognitionarts.com/

that I am a player  who likes to give it a bit of fire.
yours-David


On 02/07/2011 10:12, Riccardo Grosso wrote:
Hello you all!

Maybe it's me, I don't know, but I'm finding out my harps are getting
out of tune easily on the last period...especially on 4th hole blown,
sometimes drawn...no matter what the key is (but mainly C and D). I'm
not a overbender and I don't think to be a hard blower a-la James
Cotton...I know I got a fat tone (you can hear about it on the link
under my signature)...this thing makes me wonder: it's my technique
fault in some point? it's the harmonicas? it's a spell somebody put on
me :) ? Any suggestion? THANKS


--
D Priestley AKA Dr Midnight.
England's first  harmonica Guru.

Do feel free get in touch.
Harmonica lessons POA,(10 = 20% discount,&  20 = 25% discount).

I teach from: 51 Barkston Gdns, the basement flat&  On-Line,
Email me or call me to book lessons or get more info.

E-mail= dmharpman@xxxxxxxxx
Website= http://www.cognitionarts.com/
Phone=(44) 0207 373 0295



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 10:31:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Bass Harmonica - advice
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<10495940.1309617070554.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Maka McMahonwrote:
<But there is another option......
<
<The Digitech RP series of effects pedals have a great two octave step down and that lets you play bass lines <with a normal diatonic. A new RP355 and Richard Hunter's patch set for harmonica will cost less than a Hohner <Bass and open a whole new world of harp effects. I've got a slightly older RP350, but it makes some great bass <noises. I use 4 x 8" bass quad boxes as the speaker(s) for my PAs, so either the mono (35w) or stereo
<(200w/side) PAs make bass (and harp) via the RP sound good.
<
<Not sure if the Harmonicats would freak at the thought of 'bass by effects' (George Miklas may be reading <this!) and it certainly lacks the visual impact of a Bass harp, but the RP355 would be my recommendation, if <only because making a diatonic into a bass is one of the myriad of clever things it can do.
<
<Richard Hunter knows much more about this than me and I'd recommend seeking him out if you're interested in the <RP option

Thanks for the props, Maka. Some members of this list may recall that awhile ago, in response to comments by Winslow Yerxa, I posted a set of four short recordings of a standard diatonic played through various octave- and double-octave pitch-shifted setups on the RP. As those recordings showed, a double-octave shifted setup with the effect mix set to 100% produces a remarkably authentic bass harp sound. I've embedded that experiment in my latest patch sets with a patch called "Tuba." I use it on a number of tunes in my repertoire, in particular the ones where I loop a bass line under the rhythm and lead harps.

The "tuba" patch includes no amp modeling at all--just the pitch shifter. For an electric-bass sound with a harder attack, I use a similar effect setup with a Bassman amp model. Both setups move a lot of air on the low end.

I think a lot of players who think they want a bass harp would be very happy to have an RP355 and my patch set instead. It's a lot easier to play bass lines on the diatonic than on the bass harp (mainly because the breathing is MUCH easier and the holes are spaced closer together) and you can take advantage of all the stuff a diatonic can do that a bass harp can't, starting with bending. And of course, if you get tired of playing bass lines, you can go back to playing the diatonic in a more traditional way, while the only thing you can do with a bass harp in that circumstance is stop playing.

One more thing about playing bass on the harp: bass is typically one of the instruments in the band that plays constantly, and everybody else in the band depends on the bass player to stay in the pocket in terms of both time and line. In other words, you need to think very differently playing bass lines than you would playing more-traditional harmonica stuff. You also need very good breath control, because you don't get a break when the guitar takes a solo anymore.

A good place to start is to listen to your favorite records and transcribe the bass lines, or memorize them.

Regards, Richard Hunter

author, "Jazz Harp"
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter
Twitter: lightninrick


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:04:28 -0500
From: "Bill Kumpe" <bkumpe@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Hohner Price Increase
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000001cc38d1$b8f8b890$2aea29b0$@cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Smo Joe or I should say Smo Joe's kids nailed it. You have to deal with
these folks to truly understand the mindset, especially the multinationals.
Everything is about squeezing maximum profit out of the minimum expenditure.
Quality, the future of the company and the future of the market or even
national interests are irrelevant. Money is fungible and portable. You can
always go rape another product, market sector and for that matter the
working class of another country. Don't get me wrong. I am a hard core
conservative. Scary conservative to a lot of liberals. But, I come from a
blue collar background and have spent a lifetime trying to stay one step
ahead of the internationalists who sell our jobs to the lowest bidder
regardless of working conditions or quality of the product. But, that horse
has done jumped the fence. The Asians, particularly the Chinese have won.
But, don't mark a five buck cost, ten dollar on the street (there) Chinese
product up to thirty for forty bucks and then try to make me think that
twenty to thirty bucks per unit is not going into somebody's pocket. And,
to add insult to injury, don't package your units to where they cannot be
even minimally inspected for quality and then insist I buy them in three
unit lots where I have to drop nearly a hundred bucks to replace a blown out
D harp. Gimme a break guys. I may have been born in Oklahoma but it wasn't
yesterday.

Bill Kumpe
Tulsa, OK




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:10:26 -0500
From: Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<CAF1Dgr4_SJxj9C+BEdjuZCwLouzyKNhCA_p52AyDFYyEQeTy1w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Just received an email from Chicago blues harpist Ron Sorin. Ron
informed me that he has a CD worth of material ready for release; hopefully
sometime this year. This is good news for harp fans; Ron has been playing
big league blues harmonica in Chicago for over 30 years. He is one of the
harmonica's best kept secrets and his fans include Joe Filisko, Michael
Peloquin, and Rupert Oysler. And myself. I profiled Ron for harp-l back on
6/27/09.
Ron Sorin's recorded harp work is extremely difficult to find; but I was
flabbergasted to actually discover a good quality musical video on YouTube
that features some of his playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK_iO1Qf7gg.

Mick Zaklan


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:21:35 +0100
From: "Brian Irving" <Brian.Irving@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD
To: "'Mick Zaklan'" <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>, <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <10696F964A124DF5BC1382C7FB952D6F@dell>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Wow!  That's a pretty hot band and I love the harp stuff.  Let us know how
to get hold of Ron's cd in due course!

brian

-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Mick Zaklan
Sent: 02 July 2011 17:10
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD

Just received an email from Chicago blues harpist Ron Sorin. Ron
informed me that he has a CD worth of material ready for release; hopefully
sometime this year. This is good news for harp fans; Ron has been playing
big league blues harmonica in Chicago for over 30 years. He is one of the
harmonica's best kept secrets and his fans include Joe Filisko, Michael
Peloquin, and Rupert Oysler. And myself. I profiled Ron for harp-l back on
6/27/09.
Ron Sorin's recorded harp work is extremely difficult to find; but I was
flabbergasted to actually discover a good quality musical video on YouTube
that features some of his playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK_iO1Qf7gg.

Mick Zaklan



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 13:21:47 -0400
From: Joe Leone <3n037@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Ron Sorin video and upcoming CD
To: Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <BE5BF7D9-7417-4679-91FB-8CA55D9AC20C@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I LOVED it. Ron looks reminiscent of Freddie Mercury. Is he Armenian? Meanwhile the tune was 'synched'. Otherwise the N.Y. limited in the background would have drowned him out. Nice New Orleans sound. Reminded me of 'Way out Willie'. Thanks Mick.
smo-joe

On Jul 2, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Mick Zaklan wrote:

Just received an email from Chicago blues harpist Ron Sorin. Ron
informed me that he has a CD worth of material ready for release; hopefully
sometime this year. This is good news for harp fans; Ron has been playing
big league blues harmonica in Chicago for over 30 years. He is one of the
harmonica's best kept secrets and his fans include Joe Filisko, Michael
Peloquin, and Rupert Oysler. And myself. I profiled Ron for harp-l back on
6/27/09.
Ron Sorin's recorded harp work is extremely difficult to find; but I was
flabbergasted to actually discover a good quality musical video on YouTube
that features some of his playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK_iO1Qf7gg.

Mick Zaklan




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 13:00:30 -0500
From: "Bill Kumpe" <bkumpe@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Dano Chorus Pedal
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000001cc38e1$ee638b80$cb2aa280$@cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have one of the those units that I bought at a pawn shop for about ten
bucks. I have tried it with both harps and acoustic guitars and was not
impressed with the outcome. Seemed to suck gain, flatten tone and not
fatten the signal the way I hoped it would. I regularly use a touch of
chorus with harp through my Digitechs. But, I'm also using adjustable gain,
compression, reverb/delay, equalization and amp modeling. It seems to help
fatten things up in that combination. I usually like Dano. Lot of bang for
the buck on many of their products. Thinking about buying one of the little
Dano equalizers that I have heard very good things about. But, the chorus
just didn't work out for me on either harp or guitar.

Bill Kumpe
Tulsa, OK



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: joe hagins <joe_hagins@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Rejoined
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<1309632197.91726.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi everyone I am back! Hope all are well..
Joey

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:06:28 -0400
From: "James F. Antaki, PhD" <turbodog@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] cruciform needle punch
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <49F0AD93FB6E487C8834DA087E868B2F@antakamatics1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On or about June 29, Robert Hale, alias "DUKE of WAIL" asked:

It has been mentioned on the list to use a cruciform needle to enlarge
the reed hole before relocating it to another plate.
Any help, please? Thank you.

Turbodog replies:
Robert, the tool that I use for enlarging holes is actually a miniature hand
reamer. Watchmakers, clockmakers, and horologists use this tool for almost
the same purpose, except instead of a Marine Band 4-B reed they enlarge the
center hole of a Seth Thomas minute hand, or the like.

If you have not already found something to do the trick, I can help procure
one for you.

All the best.




------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 12:13:32 -0700
From: Vern <jevern@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Harp Price increases
To: Michael Easton <diachrome@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <8A12EAAA-452E-4B61-BEC0-B77FB30687D5@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Michael has it right.

You can't complain about low quality and cheapness at the same time. For people who are willing and capable of tweaking a new harp, a cheap one can be a great buy for the money. It took 20+ years but asian competition has improved the quality of US-made autos.

Seydel has stepped up to the challenge and has done the one most important thing to improve the longevity of harmonicas, SS reeds! Because SS is a much harder and tougher metal than brass/bronze, the reeds are much more difficult to make. If you play chromatic, their Saxony also has a more precisely made slide. A metal comb (powder-coated aluminum, I think) is also high quality. Their harps come well-tuned and responsive out of the box.

They are listening to what to what customers say they want. e.g. special tunings from the factory.

Cherished myths about the tonal effects of comb and reed materials actually impede quality improvements. Hohner keeps selling abominable wooden combs with nailed-on reedplates because buyers still think that "wood sounds warm."

Seydel diatonic and chromatic harps are arguably better and lower-priced than other top-of-the-line offerings with copper-alloy reeds, fancy covers, and silver plating .

Seydel appears to be really offering a better product at a reasonable price. They deserve our support.

I have no financial interest in Seydel success. I hope that they do succeed financially because that will keep their products available. Seydel flexibility and willingness to try new things is something that the Harmonica community should not lose.

Vern



On Jul 2, 2011, at 6:21 AM, Michael Easton wrote:

Not sure there is an easy answer to any of it.

I sell Hohner's, Seydel's and Suzuki's. Repair them too.

Some wholesale suppliers have cut back on the Hohner's they stock for dealers because they are too expensive to keep in inventory.
I had to switch off 3 different Hohner suppliers because they stopped carrying or refused to order certain chromatics that my customers wanted.

Suzuki sells direct to the dealer so there is no middleman price hike. I lost recent business because of their extreme price increase. Hohner's pales to it.
A Suzuki Sirius chromatic is now close to $200 more at dealer cost then last December. Other mid to high priced Suzuki's also jumped $200 in price at the wholesale level. As the product prices increase the insurance value costs increase to ship them. I cover customers shipping costs so I have to eat the extra cost.
In this case only the mfg and Feds are making extra money. Dealers have to absorb the costs trying to bring in customers.
Those of us that are harp playing dealers aren't too happy to see these price increases. It doesn't mean we reap extra income.

Seydel has seemed to maintain it's grasp on reality and what players can afford. I switched over to playing 1847's in 2006. At the time they seemed expensive.
I figured with the cost being roughly 4x more then a Marine Band or Special 20 they better last 4x as long. I know milage varies for different players with regards to reed life but I'm still playing the first C and A 1847 I bought in 2006. Still with the same reeds. My play mostly in the Cotton/Butterfield style so I do play them hard with heavy vibrato. I put away all my customs after the first year and only play 1847's out of the box.

Being a repair tech I don't have time to mess with my own harps. I want them ready to play when I need them and not breaking down every 4 months to be repaired.

Invest now in good quality built harps and when the price increases do occur you can ride the wave a bit longer instead of drowning in replacement costs every couple of months.


Michael Easton
www.harmonicarepair.com








End of Harp-L Digest, Vol 95, Issue 6
*************************************


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