Re: [Harp-L] Valving vs. Overblowing/Overdrawing

[Joe Leone <3n037@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

This is PERFECT Michelle. You explained it Wheeeeeeey better than I ever could have. You covered EVERYTHING.... ~(8^')X

On Apr 18, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Michelle LeFree wrote:

> Elizabeth Hess asks:
>> So, when I was making my Smo' Joe tuned harps, I learned how to valve
>> draw-5 so that you can blow-bend 5 to get Eb (on a C harp).  It's
>> pretty easy.  And I got a PowerBender, and valved draw 2, 7, 9,and 10
>> to get the "in-between" notes on that harp.
> 
> I really like the way you "dive in" headfirst with harp stuff, Elizabeth!
> 
>> Does it work to valve the blow reeds at the top end of a Richter-tuned
>> harp to get Db and Ab (on a C harp)?
> 
> Here is PT Gazell's chart of the notes available with a half-valved diatonic. It also includes tabs to play "Take Me Out To The Ball Game:"
> 
> http://www.ptgazell.com/uploads/Gazell_instructions_Final.pdf
> 
> As you will see when you look at the chart, Db is indeed available on hole 8 and Ab is available on hole 10.
> 
> And for a little more background, here is a short article on PT and half-valving found on the Seydel website you might find useful:
> 
> http://www.seydel1847.de/WebRoot/Seydel/Shops/Seydel/Download/Spezialanfertigungen/Halve-Valved-PT-SEYDEL.pdf
> 
>> Blow bending with valves seems easier to execute than overblowing and
>> overdrawing.
> 
> They are, without question, easier for me. I find overbending quite elusive (but then I haven't tried very hard given the half-valving solution).
> 
>> Why does overblowing/overdrawing seem so much more
>> prevalent?  Are there cons to valving that I don't know about?
> 
> Jerome gave you a good overview, contrasting the features of the overbending and half-valving approaches. He's one of the few people I've heard say that overbends are easy. I say good on ya, Jerome! But overbends aren't for everybody. They seem "unnatural" to me if for no other reason that overblows and overdraws raise the pitch of of the "native" note where half-valved bends lower them. This makes half-valved bends easier for me to conceptualize and incorporate into my playing because all my bends lower the tone.
> 
> One thing I might add to the "Jersimuse's" evaluation is that half-valved bends give you a wide range of "bent" tones. That's the challenge, learning to isolate the specific "missing" notes you need to hit spot-on if chromaticity is your goal. I'm told that overbent notes are difficult "pop" and that once you hit one it is difficult to "bend" them to get that terrific expressive ability of the "natural" bends that draws many of us to the instrument. Folks get caught up in the discussion of the two techniques for playing chromatically. But there is a secondary advantage to using a half-valved diatonic that is often overlooked. That wide range of available bent half-valved tones often gets lost in the discussion. On first blush this wide range seems a problem in that you do need to isolate specific notes in the continuum of available tones to play chromatically. But to me, this new-found range of notes is a great friend. The ability to bend those half-valved notes extends that artistic expression to our music we are so used to applying on the "natural" bends -- to all the "unbendable" notes. That alone doubles the options available to you in your playing. To be quite honest, I use that extended expression for feeling in a tune more than I try to be disciplined enough to "get chromatic" on my half-valved harps. Half-valved diatonics are just a gas to play! You don't lose any of the notes and bends you are used to; you just gain a wide palette of additional expression and, if you want to practice enough to control this palette you can play chromatically. What's not to like? It may be interesting to know that Brendan Power has half-valved all of his diatonics for years. Ask him why and he'll tell you the same thing.
> 
> As to why so many harpers are drawn to overbending, I have my opinions. I think it is a mixture of overbending being a "trend" and the human tendency to want to "keep up with the Joneses." Between Jerome's response and my own you should have a pretty good picture of the ins and outs of half-valving versus overbending. There are no secrets and "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" in playing a diatonic harmonica chromatically. Either way takes a lot of discipline and dedication to do it well. I have no doubt that whichever method you settle on you will do well.
> 
>>  Is it
>> "cheating" to use the easier technique for getting those notes?
> 
> Nah!
> 
>> Supposing I wanted to use valves*until*  I got good enough to overblow/
>> overdraw as if it were "just another bend", can you overblow a chamber
>> that has a valve on it?  Is there any reason not to just valve
>> everything relevant on all my harps?
> 
> You have to choke the "normal" reed to get an overbend as they take place on the reed opposite the choked one. In other words, with a 6-blow OB, the 6-blow reed is choked to get the 6-draw reed to sound the OB note. So, overbends are two-reed bends. The valves in a half-valved diatonic keep the "opposite" reed from sounding and isolate the target reed for a single reed bend (same as bending with a chromatic harmonica). As an example, if you play 6b, the 6d reed is shut off and you bend the 6b reed with a single-reed bend. Upshot: you can't overbend a half-valved diatonic. But I would ask, why would you want to?  ;^)  One thing, valves are easy to remove and half-valving a diatonic is completely non-destructive. Remove the valves and you have your old diatonic back.
> 
>> I found a hammer.  Everything looks like a nail at the moment.
>> Except I have this nagging feeling that I*ought*   to know better.
>> What am I missing?
>> 
>> Elizabeth
> 
> Elizabeth, you should now have a pretty good picture of the two techniques. I'd advise you to take one of your duplicate-keyed harps and half-valve it yourself. You'll see the possibilities in minutes. Then learn to overblow 6b. You'll soon know which method is easier for you and which is more pleasing to your ear. Then do your usual thing and attack it with vigor!  8^)
> 
> And let us know what you find.
> 
> Michelle
> 
>