Re: [Harp-L] Overblows and Blues Nazis and so-called "Little Walterclones".

[roberttifol@xxxxxxx]

 im a a pretty traditional blues lover but i dont think im a blues nazi i think this is more a matter of taste.people have a right to like what they like. i really love the blues prior to 1968 . when the blues was more than just music,  it was also a life style and a story telling medium where stories were told to an audience that had similar experiences.  
the intonation of overblows sound strange to me when applied to traditional blues, there not really part of the language with the exception of that early 1927 recording. i do however have a great respect for musicians who create ther own sound , much more that i do for imitatators. imitation is a way to learn but at some point you've got to come up with your own sound. Little walter did it , its easy to copy something already done but to create it ,thats the diference. most little walter clones play his music as classical pieces note for note imitation or they combine little walter licks thinking there playing something new . walter never played the same thing twice and he always played to the meaning of the song. when those records were cut they were alive at the time and they are still alive 50 plus years later.
many musicians developed there sound and style by listening to other instruments. toots theilman once said "dont copy me- what i play on the harmonica, listen to the great jazz players and play what they play on your harp", you're still copying but its now on the harmonica and you will have to make certain adjustment  to the music so it lays right on the harp. you will get a new style. maybe your own voice some guitar players played piano licks. that was a new way of playing. the overblows and different tunings are a means to expand the instrument and the musician and i think its great !!! 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: gnarlyheman@xxxxxxxxx
To: Grant Walters <grant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Harp-L] Overblows and Blues Nazis and so-called "Little Walterclones".


My friend John Frazer plays traditional harp but can also overblow--and play 
drums at the same time.
Gary
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerryÂ

-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Walters <grant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:23:18 
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fwd: [Harp-L] Overblows and Blues Nazis and so-called "Little Walter
    clones".



> 
> Drew
> 
> you guys are probably done with this subject  but I have to agree with Drew 
here..
> The term Blues Nazi really rubs me the wrong way.
> Now, I used to play with self proclaimed Bluegrass nazi's
> and they wanted no Harmonica...ever..
> They would have turned down Charlie McCoy and really lost out.
> Why did I play with them...just loved the music.
> 
> I am just as apt to buy an album ( I mean CD) by someone who does not use the 
Overblows
> as someone who does...It depends on the music.
> 
> To counter Drew's statement, for fun..even though I agree with alot of it...
> Which Overblow specialist plays the best old school (avoiding the above slur) 
soulful approach.
> Is there a guy from this (OB) camp that would satisfy Drew's style of  
"traditional Blues".
> 
> look..I already own every album I can fit in my little music room from all the 
traditional guys...
> and keep getting more...and hang out with this crowd.
> 
> Is there a guy who sounds like Big Walter and uses an Overblow?
> Sure there is...
> I leave it to the experts to identify the best of them for our education.
> Not the ones who as Drew put it...
> "the tone of OBs can't yet match the tone of traditional blues harp and b"
> But the ones who can....Who's the best..for my listening pleasure?
> 
> I've gone to see Robert Cray at least six times...love him.
> The guy practically invented his own genre..
> but even he gets into a rut...
> I'm ready for some variety but not ready for the revolution...
> who is the guy who uses OB."judiciously, sparingly and in faster phrases where 

> they are less likely to be examined too long by listeners"
> I eagerly await some suggestions for my list of new old schoolers.
> 
> thanks,
> Grant
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Ev630 wrote:
> 
>> I don't get "het up" about overblows but I've noticed a lot of overblow
>> practitioners get het up when I observe that a) the tone of OBs can't yet
>> match the tone of traditional blues harp and b) that it is usually the case
>> that OBs are frequently approximate in pitch, especially when the player is
>> being overly ambitious and attempting some jazz tune with a lot of changes.
>> 
>> I don't mind OBs used judiciously, sparingly and in faster phrases where
>> they are less likely to be examined too long by listeners. That 6 OB works
>> nicely if you don't linger. But slow blues swooping notes? Forget it. I do
>> however get tired of OB aficionados being incredibly uncritical and
>> defensive about the weaknesses of the technique. It's like they're in denial
>> and take simple observations of fact very personally. Hey, if you tell me
>> that traditional blow bent notes can sound shrill and annoying - I'd agree
>> that's a limitation of that technique and why they should be used sparingly
>> and only in certain keys. I don't come out shooting.
>> 
>> I think sometimes people fall a little in love with a technique and being an
>> OB player is sometimes represented as an elite level for a harp player. It
>> seems to me to be a bit of a clique or badge of honor for some. I think
>> that's a misapprehension. There are still players using simple techniques
>> who will be remembered as great, great musicians long after 2035 comes and
>> goes without OBs moving to the centre of the harp universe. Paul Oscher is a
>> great example.
>> 
>> As to the blues nazi thread, I myself play traditional blues harp as an
>> artistic choice. It speaks to me emotionally and I think a deep groove,
>> swing and a big tone is the kind of blues that appeals to me. That doesn't
>> man to say that I don't listen to and enjoy numerous other styles of music
>> and indeed non-traditional blues. I think one of the great blues albums of
>> the last decade is Robert Cray's "Twenty". Indeed, the title track is an
>> incredibly moving slow blues and it is by no stretch of the imagination
>> traditional. However, Cray's album exemplifies deep groove, swing and killer
>> tone. Sometimes I think that this blues Nazi label is really just a
>> rhetorical caltrop or a verbal smokescreen. Don't like someone pointing out
>> the limitations of your favourite technique? Call them a blues Nazi and hope
>> everyone ignores them. Problem solved.
>> 
>> Finally, to another point I have noticed over many (15) years reading Harp-L
>> that irks me. That's this idea of people being Little Walter clones. It's
>> true there are one or two people who try to nail Little Walter. But I have
>> occasionally seen Kim Wilson represented as a Walter clone. Whenever THAT
>> happens it immediately identifies the poster to me as being someone who has
>> not THEMSELVES listened to much blues outside of Little Walter. Or certainly
>> not enough to absorb the differences. That's why they can't hear the massive
>> influence of Sonny Boy I, James Cotton, Big Walter, Junior Wells, Rice
>> Miller, George Smith, Jerry McCain and a few other guys in Wilson's playing.
>> And that, with a few signature phrases and techniques that are his own all
>> adds up to an identifiable voice in blues music. NOT a clone.
>> 
>> So, to sum up:
>> 
>> - overblows are very cool, but they're just a technique and they have
>> limitations like every other technique. People who don't use them just MIGHT
>> do so for specific valid reasons, not merely because they are the musical
>> primitives you first assume;
>> 
>> - Be careful who you call a Blues Nazi and ask yourself what your motives
>> are in doing so; and
>> 
>> - if you think certain people are Little Walter clones, maybe you need to
>> listen more widely.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Drew
>> 
>> 
>> Frank wrote: "I guareentee you by 2035 everybody will be using overblows
>>> simply because the instruments being built and sold to the public at large
>>> by then will be sooooooooo TOTALLY and PERFECTLY overblow FRIENDLY that the
>>> controversy surrounding them will be a "head scratcher"!!! B-Radical ring a
>>> bell..."
>>> 
>>> I agree 100% - I really can't understand why people get all het up OB/Ds,
>>> it's really not that difficult - if you can play clean bends on the top
>>> octave, then it's a good next step because all your doing is adapting the
>>> technique.
>> 
>