[Harp-L] Re: OBs Blues nazis and a response to EV

[Ev630 <eviltweed@xxxxxxxxx>]

>
> EV630 wrote:
>
> But what "mistake" do they make? It'd help if you could be clearer. What
> exactly are you referring to here?
>
>
> Buddha sez: "The biggest mistake I see in people when making claims
> about OBers is
> > it's usually from a Blues Player perspective. OBs are useful in Blues
> > but most of the OB guys are simply into other forms of music."
> >
>
>
> >Did I perpetrate this mistake at any point in my own observations? I'd be
> >keen to know.
>
>
> YES
>

You'll have to forgive me. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop in your
explanation. As in, "The biggest mistake I see in people when making claims
about OBers is it's usually from a Blues Player perspective BECAUSE THEY X,
Y AND Z."

But I see now that your entire position on this is that people who play
blues have no right to comment on overblows. I have to say that's kind of an
extreme position to adopt.

The best OB guys are not blues guys yet you are making the mistake of making
> trans-genre comparisons in regards to technique
>

How is it making a "mistake" to comment on the use of OBs in the blues, when
people USE OBs in the blues? Further, how is it a "mistake" to comment on
the use of OBs when OB practitioners from time to time post that blues
players who don't master OBs are limiting themselves and not advancing
music? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course blues players have a right
to respond.

>and b) that it is usually the case that OBs are frequently approximate in
> pitch,
>
> I say almost every harmonica player on the planet has this issue
> especially when they DON'T know how to OB. Of course there are
> exceptions.
>

True. But while it's become (within limits) and accepted element of
traditional blues, I was here thinking of the many examples of jazz harp I
have heard where the pitch of the note was inaccurate in a way that would
never be accepted by musicians on other instruments.

>especially when the player is being overly ambitious and attempting some
jazz
tune with a lot of changes.

Again, you speaking from a blues perspective which is exactly the
> "mistake" I have been referring to.
>

Actually my post was addressing a range of issues. In that sentence I am
CLEARLY addressing the failings of OBs to consistently deliver the goods in
a jazz context, i.e., "attempting some jazz tune". While I do not myself
play jazz (on this instrument), I listen to it every day and have done so
for 40 years. I have as much right to comment on poor intonation in that
musical context as anyone.

 > I don't mind OBs used judiciously, sparingly and in faster phrases
> > where they are less likely to be examined too long by listeners. That 6
> > OB works nicely if you don't linger. But slow blues swooping notes?
> Forget
> > it. I do however get tired of OB aficionados being incredibly uncritical
> and
> defensive about the weaknesses of the technique. It's like they're
> > in denial and take simple observations of fact very personally.
>
> You mean like when we OBers proclaim that blues is simple and most
> harp players suck as musicians?
>

I never said that anyone sucked as a musician. I was pointing out the
problems with one technique - and acknowledging that the technique isn't
alone in having weaknesses. However, any OBer who dared to make that
statement better be sure that his pitch is 100% certain every time they play
or record.

You're speaking of OBs in blues and I'm saying the best OBers aren't
> blues players so your comparisons are whack from the start.
> There are maybe a dozen guys that really know how to use the OB
> technique so if you're making your judgments based on the 1000s of
> players who are just getting into the technique, even though you may
> be correct your basis for judgment is wrong.
>

In that post I was speaking of OBs in a blues context AND in a jazz (or
indeed any other) context. I merely observe the two weaknesses of the
technique: you have to be careful about intonation - more so than in older
techniques - and you cannot get a consistent tone up the harp (a bigger
problem for traditional amplified blues than some other applications).
However, when it matches the music and the performer nails the OBs or works
within the limitations - it's a very cool technique.

I don't play much blues and truth be told I suck at it but here
> something that is bluesy
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN17KmSOyEw
>
> here is a lesson I was giving on a different kind of blues. You need
> OBs to play this kind of blues in Cross harp.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqwIK3FaX_s
>
> EV, could you play harp cross over this and sound good? I can't.


I didn't check your links. I'm not talking about my abilities or yours. I'm
talking about a technique in a practical and impartial sense. In other
words: there was a thread about OBs and I posted my observations.  I'm not
slamming Obs or people who dig them.

Drew