[Harp-L] Re: Super Loud bands: Jamming at a party?



Just back from anothers days playing a spot at a Community festival and finishing the day at 'a private party'. 
We have another gig tommorrow so I'm home ready for bed.
In sweet silence.
On the subject of LOUD bands.
The Private party involved tonights  host setting up a small P.A. and drum kit and inviting a posse of so called local musicians. All up a  'Good time was had by all'...however...once again (a) the [so called]drummers who played can't hold down a beat half the time and when playing blues and certainly can't shuffle with any finess, at all. It sometimes sounds to me like the tin cans behind a wedding car clattering down a hill. Basically if you've got a so called amature rock drummer in the chair look out !! (b) also a truely God aweful debacle begins when some amature hot shot on electric & slide guitar decides to blast all over the tunes and grooves [and actually thinks he's playing great like Stevie Ray or Thorogood or something ]. 
Is it just 'the booze'? Why is it there are so many of these crude enthusiastic 'wanna be's out there storming in with terrible 'bellowing' renditions of  Stormy Monday, Red House, Sweet Home Alabama, Rock me Baby , Can't be satisfied and all the other banally delivered totally 'over done, mindless standard covers' . For heavens sake Andy Warhol needs shooting for basically inviting everyone to 15 minutes of fame. I understand everyone has got to start somewhere, but 'the fantasy' is often quite different to the actual outcome. As was earlier mentioned music is a language. A diverse and subtle language, a connection and an ability to use ones intuition when playing into a blues format. Where do you go if you are shouting down the rest of the band. Also, I find it amazing that some 'newbie' harmonica players can jump into 'a jam' blowing all over the place like 'wounded hyenas'  using usually one battered key on every tune ?Absolutely 'no method', nor skills and just won't shut the hell up. Shameless huffing and puffing may seem like fun but it's an insult to everyone in ear shot and totally stuffs the music and is totally disrespectful to the other musicians and the audience. 'One to one' lessons are essential in my opinion *[useless you fly a plane and have a photographic memory] and can be bothered with half the crap thats out there [huge exceptions to that 'rule' apply, obviously]. Jamming ???... may be fun... but theres 'jamming' or 'participating in supporting a song, singer or groove and then theres just making a horrifying racket and being such a moron, that you think you've played 'music'.
Having said that 'a good time was had by all' at the party...?
   
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <harp-l-request@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: Harp-L Digest, Vol 69, Issue 23



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Today's Topics:

   1. RE: recommended harps (Bradford Trainham)
   2. Re: Astatic by Hohner JT-30 Adapte (Greg Heumann)
   3. RE: recommended harps (Candace R. Meyer)
   4. RE: recommended harps (Candace R. Meyer)
   5. Super Loud Bands (sam blancato)
   6. RE: recommended harps (Dennis M. Cooper)
   7. Re: Which harps last longest when gigging regularly? (Mojo Red)
   8. Re: recommended harps (Larry Marks)
   9. MB Deluxe redux (Richard Hunter)
  10. RE: recommended harps (A.C.)
  11. Philly this Tuesday? (Jim Rossen)
  12. Re: Super Loud Bands (Joe and Cass Leone)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:59:03 -0500
From: "Bradford Trainham" <bradford.trainham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] recommended harps
To: "'Tom Halchak'" <thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <200905082216.n48MGUfl006117@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Since you've already 'fessed up to a curiosity about the Steve Baker
Specials, I can observe that...
About four years ago, I found out that SBS harps existed.  I wondered if I'd
get one, hate it, feel foolish...  But finally, I took the plunge and
ordered my first SBS in c. 
 
It worked for me right off the bat.  I over-reacted to liking it so much...
And schemed to have 14-hole monsters in every key of the aural rainbow. 
(I should probably add that all my experience before then had been with the
Hohner Marine Band or the Hohner Blues harps.)
After I played the SBS for a while... And ordered a couple more..., I hit a
few situations where I missed the "succinct" feeling of the ten-hole
diatonics, so I started bringing them back out again. 
I'm (hopefully) more balanced now about a given harp for a given situation,
but I'd say try what ever you're the most curious about and see if one such
harp works for you. 

 Another foray into the unknown which wasn't as immediately rewarding for me
was the Hohner XB-40.
The description sounded like just what I'd want, but I've never cared for
the feel of that harp, so it does sit in my harp drawer most of the time,
doubtless beaming jealousy at the others... But at least I know now...
Good luck!
Brad Trainham


-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Tom Halchak
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 12:59 PM
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] recommended harps

As I continue to further my education in the wide world of harmonica, I
would like to get some advice about future purchases of harps.  Like most of
you, I continue to add to my ever increasing collection of harps.  However,
since I now have all the keys covered, moving forward I would like to focus
on quality vs. quantity.  To give you a frame of reference, late last year,
I got a great deal on a complete set of Golden Melodies so I have one of
every key made.  That is my foundation.  However, due in large part to some
of the conversations on Harp-l, in December, I treated myself to a Christmas
present and purchased  a Bb Suzuki MR330 Pro Master, an A Seydel Blues
Favorite and a C Marine Band DeLuxe.  Each of these harps cost me about $50
and I have been very pleased with them all.  As I add to my collection, I
would prefer not to go through a trial and error process at $50 a pop.  I
would like to add a couple of harps a month in what would be the most
popular keys (ie - the ones you will most often play with other musicians)
and brands that give me the best bang for my buck.  For example,  I would
like to purchase a Steve Baker tuned harp.  I know that Hohner makes them as
does Seydel.  Where should I invest my money?  The Seydel A Harp I got in
December plays a lot easier than my Golden Melody A, but would a Suzuki A be
even better than the Seydel?  You see my dilemma.  I have been playing harp
since the early '70's when was in college, but I'm not a professional.  Like
most amateurs, I just love to play and would like to make sure I invest my
money wisely in quality equipment.

 

I would welcome your input and I also understand that most of you have a
certain bias towards one brand or another so don't be shy about recommending
a specific brand.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom Halchak

Clearwater, FL 33763

 

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 16:22:43 -0700
From: Greg Heumann <greg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Astatic by Hohner JT-30 Adapte
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: bkumpe@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <88F111C6-8675-4755-AE18-79D6DA0A0D81@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Bill, I carry them in stock - in fact you can order them from the  
Ordering and Pricing  page on my web site.

I am also a big fan of the screw-on connector. Shortest, lightest, and  
the microphone end is the most reliable connector. The cables are  
reliable too if they're well made, but are less reliable if poorly made.


/Greg

http://www.blowsmeaway.com
http://www.bluestateband.net


> From: "Bill Kumpe" <bkumpe@xxxxxxx>
> Date: May 8, 2009 11:25:17 AM PDT
> To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Harp-L] Astatic by Hohner JT-30 Adapter
>
>
> The "new" Astatic by Hohner JT-30 mic comes equipped with a truly  
> ancient
> Amphenol (???) screw on cable connector.  Does anybody know of an  
> adapter
> for this guy that will let you use a plain old guitar cable?
>
> Bill Kumpe
> Tulsa, Oklahoma





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 16:45:47 -0700
From: "Candace R. Meyer" <hqr@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] recommended harps
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <E9C02947EF7740B8B9FF07935DC83ABF@GreenApple>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I pretty much stick with Hohner Special 20s--
I like them in the TurboLids, so I know what tonality I am in, total cost
about $40 each.
I might be underinformed, but these seem like real good harps.
Oh, and for a good time, visit Slidemeister, where (in response to a recent
thread) I have written my name in harmonicas--all diatonic, mostly in
Turbolids.

http://www.slidemeister.com/forums/topicseen/topicseen/general/can-you-write
-your-name-your-harmonicas-2187.msg24916.html

I used my anagram, Gnarly He Man . . .

Gary Lehmann



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 16:49:01 -0700
From: "Candace R. Meyer" <hqr@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] recommended harps
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <02BDF379CFF248BE80D31D682173035C@GreenApple>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Let's try that again . . .

http://www.slidemeister.com/forums/general/can-you-write-your-name-your-harm
onicas-2187.0.html

I used my anagram, Gnarly He Man . . .

Gary Lehmann--not Candace, my wife, whose computer I am using as mine has
taken a dump.



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 20:00:46 -0400
From: "sam blancato" <samblancato@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Super Loud Bands
To: "Harp-L" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <0KJC00D71O16PXCD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Folks,

I haven't checked out this list for a few day - to busy - but now that I've
read out this Loud Bands thread I have to jump in with my two cents worth.  

First off playing too loud serves the same purposes in music performance
that talking too loud does in spoken communication.  Music is a language and
performance is a way of using that language.  Most of the times I hear
somebody get loud their message suffers for it in that it usually means that
loudness is taking the places of better chosen words or with just with just
using little bits of volume here and there to make emphases.  

For me it's usually blues bands that I go to hear.  The best bands I hear
live are usually national acts; Mark Hummel, John Nemeth, Kim Wilson are the
bands that come to mind.  And I tell you, these guys usually stay cool,
never ruffled.  They hold back.  They give bursts of volume in some parts of
their performance but it really makes for much better emphasis.  

The local bands I hear are far more likely to be loud all the time and
they're playing reflects this too.  It always seems like everybody is trying
to have this musical orgasm ALL THE TIME.  I think it's very tiring.  I've
jammed hundreds of time with that kind of cacophony of noise and I know it
diminishes my playing; having to fight to be in the groove is a pain in the
ass.  I think it diminishes every aspect of the music to a degree.  It
deemphasizes the tempo and the more subtle parts of the rhythm guitar, it
makes it hard for the bass to be more dynamic, in fact it pretty much takes
dynamics out of the picture.  

So I guess I'm not in the "different strokes for different folks" camp.  I
think loud diminishes the musical opportunity for everyone concerned,
players and audience alike.

Oh yeah, and it covers a lot of mistakes too, as well as damaging most
peoples hearing.

Sam Blancato, Pittsburgh    


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 18:07:08 -0600
From: "Dennis M. Cooper" <dcooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] recommended harps
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <30A7967A27664924801081B9E1A92DF2@DennisCooper>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 I too am a big fan of special 20's and Turbo-Lids, but an even bigger fan
of several of the ready-to-play TurboHarp harmonicas. No affiation, just
love the tone and volume! http://www.turboharp.com


Best Regards,
Dennis M. Cooper

http://www.dennis-cooper.com
http://www.harmonicaBootCamp.com
http://www.reverbnation.com/denniscooper



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mojo Red <harplicks@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Which harps last longest when gigging regularly?
To: Buzz Krantz <buzzo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <45058.20815.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


----- Original Message ----
From: Buzz Krantz <buzzo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Buzz wrote:
I use Special 20...(~snip~) because ... (~snip~) I blow hard...
buzz...................

A Blow-hard, eh? Nice to get confirmation right from the source. ;-)

Sorry. Just couldn' resist. 
Love ya, Buzz! 

Harpin' in Colorado,
--Ken M. 


      



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 17:43:51 -0700
From: Larry Marks <larry.marks@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] recommended harps
To: Tom Halchak <thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4A04D1C7.7000006@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Well, first of all, it should not be costing you $50 for a ProMaster 
harp. I pay $40 for the valved version which is more expensive than the 
unvalved version.

I play the ProMaster harp because it is the only pre-valved harp I can 
buy; otherwise, I have to make my lazy ass do the valving, which results 
in messy fingers and a messy harp (in my case.)

I play the valved ProMaster precisely because I bought a XB-40 and hated 
it (size.) I also was unsatisfied with the arrangement of the scale for 
overblowing. I am a fairly simple-minded person and get confused easily. 
The valved ProMaster allows me to play a chromatic instrument without 
little slides or a difficult (for me) to deal with overblow layout.

Of course, if playing chromatic is not important to you or if you are 
willing to learn the overblow layout, you have lots more choices, but I 
have to say that I am generally satisfied with the ProMaster instruments.

-LM


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 21:07:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] MB Deluxe redux
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx, harptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<16090940.1241831230069.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Today I got the Marine Band Deluxe A harp that Hohner sent me to replace the one that was in poor shape when I bought it about a month ago.  (It took me a couple of weeks to send it back to the factory.)  This instrument is a completely different story from the one it replaced.  

Out of the box, it's in tune, plays a full dynamic range from soft to very loud, and overblows as easily as any mass-produced instrument I've ever owned.  It has a nice barking tone when it's played hard, and it's got a smooth response all the way up and down the line. In short, it's a very nice instrument, more than comparable to the similarly priced Suzuki Firebreaths I own.

If this instrument turns out to be durable as well as good-sounding, it could easily become a staple in my kit. It's certainly got the sound.

Regards, Richard Hunter
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 19:35:13 -0600
From: "A.C." <ac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] recommended harps
To: "'Larry Marks'" <larry.marks@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Tom Halchak'"
<thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <125276158E444A90A2904E8F66F4D9CA@office>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Not to promote one harp or the other but it's also possible to order any
Seydel harps valved.

-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Larry Marks
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:44 PM
To: Tom Halchak
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] recommended harps

Well, first of all, it should not be costing you $50 for a ProMaster 
harp. I pay $40 for the valved version which is more expensive than the 
unvalved version.

I play the ProMaster harp because it is the only pre-valved harp I can 
buy; otherwise, I have to make my lazy ass do the valving, which results 
in messy fingers and a messy harp (in my case.)

I play the valved ProMaster precisely because I bought a XB-40 and hated 
it (size.) I also was unsatisfied with the arrangement of the scale for 
overblowing. I am a fairly simple-minded person and get confused easily. 
The valved ProMaster allows me to play a chromatic instrument without 
little slides or a difficult (for me) to deal with overblow layout.

Of course, if playing chromatic is not important to you or if you are 
willing to learn the overblow layout, you have lots more choices, but I 
have to say that I am generally satisfied with the ProMaster instruments.

-LM
_______________________________________________
Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 21:07:28 -0500
From: Jim Rossen <jimjimdr@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Philly this Tuesday?
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<f43d7e3f0905081907j2d80634dy8f5a65239cc24691@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Any interesting music or jams in Philly this Tueday night?

Thanks-
Jim R


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 22:09:55 -0400
From: Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Super Loud Bands
To: sam blancato <samblancato@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <028EEDD1-39B6-4BE8-B494-83FBFF0DD33B@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On May 8, 2009, at 8:00 PM, sam blancato wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> First off playing too loud serves the same purposes in music  
> performance
> that talking too loud does in spoken communication.

You must be a teacher.

>   Music is a language and performance is a way of using that  
> language.  Most of the times I hear
> somebody get loud their message suffers for it in that it usually  
> means that
> loudness is taking the places of better chosen words
>
> Oh yeah, and it covers a lot of mistakes too, as well as damaging most
> peoples hearing.
>
> Sam Blancato, Pittsburgh
>
First scenario. When I play at the Harborside in Marinatown, it's an  
open air sports bar and the band is exceptionally loud. So much so  
that although there is a 10 pm noise curfew, we have had to back off  
to playing from 6:30 till 9:30 instead of 7 till 10..BECAUSE as soon  
as we may go over a few minutes on the last tune because we are not  
slaves to time, sure enough the residents of the high rise condos  
across the lagoon from the marina will be on the phone to the cops,  
the mayor, the national guard, and the north west royal mounted.

The keyboard/B3 player is the culprit and while he also plays bass  
with his left hand, he keeps insisting that he can't hear the drums.  
(the drums are miked). The drummer, meanwhile insists that he can't  
hear the bass. Then the guitar player can't hear HIMSELF...and makes  
mistakes. Luckily, 'I' am working by rote and don't make these  
mistakes..BUT, I have to play too loud and while I may acquiesce with  
diatonics, I don't like that with chromos. And, I can't use very many  
nuances. We have an abundance of sax players always around and they  
literally blow their brains out.


Second scenario. When I play at the Roadhouse OR Lighthouse, we are  
talking supper clubs here. The  volume has to be commensurate with  
people on a sojurn and talking at normal levels. Neither the baby  
grand nor the drums have to be mikes. The upright bass is just right  
and with me on a mike, there are only 4 of us playing. EVERYTHING I  
do can be clearly heard, and I can 'milk' the tunes. This has  
advantages (better tips) AND disadvantages (naked sound). If I make a  
mistake, everyone in the place can tell. On the other hand, I get  
compliments at those places BECAUSE they can hear what I am trying to  
say with the harp. This doesn't happen in the first scenario. If  
horns sit in they're not allowed to use my mike. Owner's orders.

Conclusion? The crowd is starting to drop off at scenario #1. Volume  
should fit the scenario.. but STILL shouldn't be over 1,ooo  
Roentgens.  lolol

Joe Leone   (Pittsburgh/Punta Gorda)

  
  


------------------------------

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