Re: [Harp-L] super locrian - or melodic minor

icemanle@xxxxxxx · Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:51:52 -0400

I love this sequence of notes and arrived at it through my own experimentation and harmony meditations - different path than what is outlined in these excellent posts regarding this sequence of notes.

Whatever scale degree I wish to create this sequence from, I'll start with the diminished scale 1/2 tone, whole tone sequence for four notes and then move to the whole tone interval for the next three notes. It opens up that Miles Davis style major/minor harmony for the third and gives that wonderful sharp 11 sound as well as other great choices just slightly "outside".

Another approach I've used is thinking second inversion chord based on the flatted sixth and second inversion chord on the sixth scale degree of a diatonic scale. Then, all you have to do is add a minor seventh scale degree and away you go - all the note choices are covered.

On keyboards, check out the sound of these two second inversion chords played in your right hand while the left hand plays the major third and the minor seventh (tritone interval) notes.

Very hip.

-----Original Message-----
From: winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx
To: 'Harp L Harp L' <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2009 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] super locrian - or melodic minor

When you voice this scale in 4ths, you get what is called an altered dominant:

C Fb Bb Eb Ab Db Gb

Fb sounds like E, so you've got a C-E-Bb skeleton 7th chord, All the other notes
are alterations of what they might otherwise b
e if you were working off, say, an
F major scale, hence the "altered" name.

Try vocing this chord on a keyboard or guitar and you'll instantly recognize a
very common (and beautiflly expressive) jazz chord.

This chord would typcially occur in the context of a ii-V-I progression that
might go:

Gm7b7 - Calt7 - Fm

By the way, the "super locrian" is only one of the mode names for the scale
commonly referred to in jazz as "melodic minor". Classical types will quibble
and say that this is the *ascending* melodic minor.

In C this scale would be:

C D Eb F G A B

It's almost a C major scale - only the 3rd of the scale, Eb, is a minor sounding
note.

The 7th degree of this scale (the altered scale) would be used to build a B
altered dmioniant chord in 4ths.

The 4th degree, sometimes called the Lydian dominat, gives you an F7 hord with a
raised 4th (or 11th) for a floating, slightly haunted feel.

A fragment of this scale sounds like a whole-tome scale: Eb F G A B

Another fragment sounds like a diminished scale: A B C D Eb F

The above progression of Gm7b5 - Calt7 - Fm coudl be played using three
different melodic minor scales:

For the Gm7b5 chord, use a Bb melodic minor.

For the Calt7 chord, use the Db melodic minor

For the F minor chord, use F melodic minor

If you're at all into jazz, this is scale that repays close study and
experimentation. It's been written about quite extensively in jazz theory books.

Winslow
 Yerxa

Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Clayton Gary Lehmann <hqr@xxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Clayton Gary Lehmann <hqr@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] super locrian
To: "'Arthur Jennings'" <timeistight@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "'Harp L Harp L'" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 11:07 AM

As fate would have it, a 260 tuned to augmented was within reach, so I
treated myself to some flat 11.
All given notes except for the Db and Eb--
I know this scale should be under my belt, but somehow, when it comes time
to solo over altered chords, I simply modify the chord tones, rather than
apply tritone substitutes.
So this scale is intended to be played over C7 altered chords, resolving to
F?
Gary

-----Original
 Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Arthur Jennings
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:54 AM
To: Rick Dempster
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] RE Little Walter's harmony/Let's all talk Little
Walter!

The major third can't be the eleventh, but if you flatten the eleventh
(a.k.a, the fourth) you get a note enharmonic to the major third.

For example, look at C super locrian (a.k.a., the C altered scale) which is
the seventh mode of the C# ascending melodic minor scale. The notes are:

C, Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab, Bb, C

The fourth of the scale, Fb, is enharmonic to E
 natural, the note we would
usually think of as the major third.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Rick Dempster
<rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxx
au>wrote:

> Richard;
>Â Â Â Â ÂÂÂHow can the major third be the eleventh, Richard. That's the
> fourth, surely?
> RD
>
>
--
Arthur Jennings
http://www.timeistight.com
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Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
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