Subject: Re: Subject: [Harp-L] HARMONICA PLAYING Arabian nights Belly dance

[EGS1217@xxxxxxx]

Vern writes:
 
"Please don't give any sweeping interpretations to my posts". 
 
My response (Elizabeth's): Is that what you're assuming I did? Well pardon  
me.  I believe I merely quoted two small bits of your very own statements  
back. Pray tell how that is in any way making 'sweeping interpretations'?
 
 
 V: "My limited main point is that the Youtube video and audio  performances 
are not the same. 
 
E: To which I've given a couple of reasonable explanations, which  you won't 
consider as possibilities without any real proof to the  contrary, preferring 
to label a harmonica player as a fraud with  only supposition.
 
 
V: " I gave examples of why this is true. My posts had specifics that  you 
could have addressed if you can show that I am wrong."
 
E: There it is again. You say that your examples show 'why it is true'  as if 
it's already proven fact, when nothing at all about this man's playing has  
been proven...yet.  Your 'examples' ignore the most common-sense and  logical 
explanations. You aren't remotely considering that he just might have  
pre-recorded his audio, then played over this already recorded music  for the camera. 
 
Why would you dismiss this strong possibility (given the reverb  heard) out 
of hand?  Or the well-known reality  that YouTube videos are notoriously out of 
sync with  the music, most especially with overseas videos?  I'll point you 
to a  video of Christelle's ...she played Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, whereupon 
 one 'sage' recently commented that it was a good try, but it wasn't her  
playing because he'd caught something which didn't jibe with the music,  
timing-wise. I can assure you (as I did him), her playing is legitimate and  her 
videos done almost exclusively in 'one-take'. (He still stubbornly  believes he's 
right)...so there is one specific example as a precedence for  my belief about 
Mr. Bhandari, among the many 'out-of-sync-with-the-music' videos  I've seen.
 
V: "I did not condemn the whole man.  I did point out his  deception." 
 
E: Calling him a fraud (in essence a liar about the music he is posting)  
isn't condemning him? In what world?  What deception are you pointing  out?  A 
'deception' only you are assuming.  I don't believe you or  anyone else has the 
right to assume such without first having absolute  proof.  Further, if your 
statement that  'He is primarily  known as a magician.  Debunking the occult 
powers of fraudulent  magicians is important in India where these charlatans 
prey on the  ignorant."  isn't 'condemning the man' by lumping him in with the  
afore-mentioned charlatans, I don't know what is.  Your use of the word  
'these' clearly implicates him as one of 'them'.



V: "Since deception is his stock-in-trade as a magician, we may take  a less 
severe view than if someone like me had done it."
"I agree that the  audio is great.....whoever played it.   I suppose that it 
is possible  that he played the audio on another occasion.  However, if he had 
ever  played it correctly, it is unlikely that he would have embellished the 
video  with so much phony button-pushing."
 
E: There's the same accusation again.  Making it clear you  assume he is not 
the player of the music in question (as you did in your  next follow-up post 
to this).  
 


V: "In the performance that you cite,  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJafvhfycPM ,  did you notice that the music  and the button action agreed and that 
the dramatic button trills of the youtube  performance were absent? "
 
E:  Yes, Vern.  Not every video goes out of sync.  No one  has claimed so.  
The ones I'm talking about are those played directly into  one's computer...not 
something first videotaped and then put up on YouTube (as  was the 
performance in Russia). 
 
 As a matter of fact I DID notice that since his 9 years  prior performance 
his playing (and appearance) had changed quite a  bit: he's gotten 9 years 
older, his playing has gotten 9 years better,  presumably ...and quite possibly 
when he plays into his computer cam recently he  felt the need to 'embellish' as 
many others do..playing it up where he might not  have for a Live audience.  
I'd logically assume the quality of his  playing had improved through 9 years 
of additional practice and  because he loves playing harmonica? (stated on his 
site)  
 

V: "The man has many admirable talents, including playing the harmonica  
well.  "Harp-synching" would seem to be below him."
 
E: What?  You've just said he has added dramatic button trills and (in  your 
own words) 'phony button-pushing', yet now something as innocuous as  
'harp-synching' (which isn't anything other than what those making music  videos do), 
is beneath him, to your mind? 

V:  "The "charlatans"  that I referred to are the fraudulant magicians that 
he debunks and that prey  on  ignorant or unsophisticated victims. They falsely 
claim occult powers  to help their victims for a steep price.   see  
http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/09/stories/2008010957900300.htm  For this he  deserves 
great credit and praise.  You must know that debunkers are my  heroes!  ;o) 

Vern"
 
E:  well, yes Vern. But you didn't KNOW he was a debunker until I  posted 
that information in response to your previous post in which you clearly  were 
lumping him in with those afore-mentioned magician/charlatans.  In  your own 
words: 
 
"He is a magician who may feel OK about fooling his  audience."

"A remarkable performanc from one to whom music is  apparently 
only a sideline!"

"His website mentions  music once but doesn't mention 
harmonica.  He is primarily known  as a magician.  Debunking 
the occult powers of fraudulent  magicians is important in 
India where these charlatans prey on the  ignorant."
 
E. Your words, Vern. Not mine. Not misquoted.  If you insist  that Mr. 
Bhandari did not play the music he claims is his, then I suggest (since  you believe 
so strongly in 'debunking' charlatans) that you provide proof,  not 
suppositions about videos. 
 
 I also took the time to check out his website where he states quite  
clearly":
 
 "Hi I am a magician mouthorgan is my passion three things in life I  love 
friends magic & music...music...music "
 
umm..he might not have called it a 'harmonica' on his website Vern,  which 
lack of mention in your words you use to further bolster your  claim, but I'd 
have thought you'd already know that people in  other countries (as we did in 
Scotland where I grew up) call the  instrument a mouth organ.  A lot of the 
world still does. 
 
You might also have missed this following link in my first post where an  old 
college school mate of his talks about (and posts other links in admiration)  
to his harmonica playing:
 
_http://tinyurl.com/deonq8_ (http://tinyurl.com/deonq8) 
 
 
and from Mr. Bhandari's magicindia page:
 
 

_http://www.esnips.com/doc/3bad1979-ea20-4acf-9442-f845b37fe20f/sound-of-soul_
 
(http://www.esnips.com/doc/3bad1979-ea20-4acf-9442-f845b37fe20f/sound-of-soul) 
 
 
 
_http://www.esnips.com/web/HarmonicaMouthorgan_ 
(http://www.esnips.com/web/HarmonicaMouthorgan) 
 
 
 
I've now listened to a few of his tracks and found them quite  enjoyable. If 
these audio links he's posted to his own music are what's  considered 
'amateurish', then there's no hope for any chromatic player who  strives to improve 
his (or her) playing...especially over such a lengthy time  period as 9 years. I 
might as well quit now, since I've only come back to  chromatic playing since 
2004 ....so any improvements I thought I'd made in these  few years would be 
irrelevant if I were to use this kind of logic.
 
I have no dog in this fight...don't know Mr. Bhandari.  I simply believe it's 
extremely unfair to  call any musician a fraud without actual and  further 
research and hard  proof. 

Elizabeth





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