[Harp-L] re: Sealing the front of the harp

[David Payne <dmatthew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Â
There is a more permanent fix, than thumbs is to modify and Âprewarify.ÂBack in the day, I mean really in the day,Âye olde Marine Band had none of those grooves that the coverplate lip at the mouthpiece fits into. What it did was come in at a steeper angle, which also opens the body up a little, and increases the pressure at where it meets the reedplate. When the groove came about in the 30s, they could decrease that angle.
So what you do to seal that tight is this: take a jeweler's file to deepen and widen the coverplate groove at the top of the reedplate. Then take a small hammer and a block of wood and tap the coverplate (on the inside) to reshape the coverplate so it comes down to the coverplate at a steeper angle. 
That's how I do it. 

Dave
________________
Dave Payne 
www.elkriverharmonicas.com 
www.elkriverharmonicas.com 


Subject: [Harp-L] Sealing the front of the harp From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I read Greg Heumann's posts on sealing the front of the harp with interest. I've always wondered why the old school players hang their thumbs over the mouthpiece--it seems to me that doing so drastically limits mobility. Never considered that it might change the tone.
So I tried it--I put my left thumb over the low notes while I played, and put the high end of the harp up against my cheek. And what do you know. The tone definitely changes, just as Greg said. It's a darker, more compressed sound.

Mobility means a lot to me, so I doubt I'll do this all the time. But it's certainly a new (old) way to get more sounds out of the instrument.




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Subject: Harp-L Digest, Vol 68, Issue 26

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Today's Topics:

 1. Re: Re: Something with full-length covers! (Joe and Cass Leone)
 2. Something with full-length covers! (captron100@xxxxxxx)
 3. Re: Something with full-length covers! (Joe and Cass Leone)
 4. Re: How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth position?
   (Winslow Yerxa)
 5. RE: How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth position?
   (Micheal Murray)
 6. Greg Szlapczynski + Ian Siegal videos (Ben FELTEN [ML])
 7. Re: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Something with full-length covers!
   (Vern Smith)
 8. RE:Marine Band Crossover (marcos coll)
 9. Re: I NEVER SAID THAT!! - crossover was Re: [Harp-L] Marine
   Band Crossover (Ryan M.)
 10. Frisco bound (David Fertig)
 11. richard hunter and lee oskar harps (clydeclc@xxxxxxxx)
 12. email (SONNYTONE@xxxxxxx)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:14:49 -0400
From: Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Something with full-length covers!
To: winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BBBBC180-D008-4C6D-92B5-0706251BF346@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Apr 8, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Winslow Yerxa wrote:

>> From replies so far, what I'm getting is mouth comfort factor as 
>> the attraction of full-length covers.
>
> A few years ago the full-length cover issue came up regarding 16- 
> hole chromatics. It turns out that some players feel that the 
> tabbed end covers, like on the regular Hohner 64 (or the 270 in the 
> 12-hole size) deliver more focused sound than the full-length 
> covers of models like the Super 64 and Super 64X, because the cover 
> is restricted to the area directly above the reeds (I guess the 
> reasoning is that the sound gets projected out and isn't allowed to 
> fritter itself away in the areas beyond the reeds). Players 
> actually compare this cover design to the bell of a trumpet (this 
> per a conversation with chromatic customizer Dick Gardner).

As a former trumpet player, I totally agree. Why have extra 
instrument that has no purpose. Just last night, we had to open some 
sliding doors at the Harborside because the sound was being funneled 
into the middle of the bar area and killing people. Sooo, to diffuse 
sound..open up the area, but to focus sound..close off the area.
>
> Now I know that diatonic players do place value on opening out the 
> back of harmonica covers. But I've never heard discussion about 
> whether restricting the width of the covers to the reed area (as in 
> Marine Band, Lee Oskar, Special 20, etc) as opposed to running the 
> length of the harp (Golden Melody, Meisterklasse, Suzuki 
> Firebreath, Seydel Favorite, etc.) had any perceived benefit.

The benefit 'I' see to 'tabbed' ends is that the left end jams into 
the hand more securely and doesn't slip around. While I initially 
thought of a wet hand it turned out that I had trouble with GMs in 
Palm Desert. Where my hands got as dry as chalk.

smo-joe (the Geronimo of last stands)

> Winslow
>
> Winslow Yerxa
>
> Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
>
> --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Tim Moyer <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Tim Moyer <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re:Â Re: [Harp-L] Re: Something with full-length covers!
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 11:10 AM
>
> Winslow Yerxa wrote:
>> What's the attraction of full length covers?
>
> Bill Hines wrote:
>> Fits in the hand better, more comfortable, easier to get a seal...
>
> When I play a long time, like a several-set gig, the ends of the 
> covers of
> Marine Bands, Special 20s, Lee Oskars, etc., start to hurt my lips 
> and the
> corners of my mouth. That doesn't happen with a Golden Melody, or 
> a Tombo
> Ultimo, or a Suzuki Promaster or Bluesmaster.
>
> Unfortunately, some of the premium models only come with tabbed 
> covers, like
> the Marine Band Deluxe and the Seydel 1847. I'd love to see the 
> crossover
> with full-length covers. Of course, I'd like to see it with equal 
> tuning as
> well. Paddy Richter tuning. :-)
>
> -tim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:21:01 -0400
From: captron100@xxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] Something with full-length covers!
To: Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <8CB869EAB6CDBDB-1744-1A44@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Winslow asked and others, replied. Tim Moyer wrote: When I play a long time, like a several-set gig,
the ends of the covers of Marine Bands, Special 20s, Lee Oskars, etc., start to hurt my lips and the 
corners of my mouth. 

I too, have on more than one occasion, cut my lips on my MB's and SP20's. I've been playing MB type
harps 40 years. I agree with Tim but find the feel of Golden Melodies so different and foreign to my 
lips. Seydel 1847's have gone the extra step to make their corners round and apparently even 
braze/weld their corners, then polish smooth to avoid this issue and that of pulling mustache hairs.
ron



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:36:42 -0400
From: Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Something with full-length covers!
To: captron100@xxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1C2D11E3-4DBD-47A6-8703-A613D16C76CE@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Apr 8, 2009, at 4:21 PM, captron100@xxxxxxx wrote:

>
> Winslow asked and others, replied. Tim Moyer wrote: When I play a 
> long time, like a several-set gig,
> the ends of the covers of Marine Bands, Special 20s, Lee Oskars, 
> etc., start to hurt my lips and the
> corners of my mouth.
>
> I too, have on more than one occasion, cut my lips on my MB's and 
> SP20's. I've been playing MB type
> harps 40 years. I agree with Tim but find the feel of Golden 
> Melodies so different and foreign to my
> lips. Seydel 1847's have gone the extra step to make their corners 
> round and apparently even
> braze/weld their corners, then polish smooth to avoid this issue 
> and that of pulling mustache hairs.
> ron


>
> _I had the same problem with the sharp edged harps. So I started 
> rounding them off and filling behind with epoxy. I was never one to 
> let one particular shortcoming force me to play another (maybe 
> inferior) harp.....and I ain't even good, so I can just imagine how 
> other real players feel.

smo-joe ( the Abercrombie of Fitches)
>


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth
ÂÂÂ position?
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <509647.70086.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

OK, it appears that the poster is describing pretty much what Michael Rubin described in his reply. If you play Draw 2 on an A harp, that's an E. To play the same E on a G harp, you play Draw 3 but bend it down 2 semitones. 

Basically you're taking a note name on the A harp, and finding the same note name on the G harp, which will be a different hole/breath/bend.

Winslow

Winslow Yerxa

Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5

--- On Wed, 4/8/09, Micheal Murray <mmcrochunter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Micheal Murray <mmcrochunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth positionÃâï
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 11:18 AM





    Heres the link 
http://harp-l.org/mailman/htdig/harp-l/2009-January/msg00784.html

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:01:13 +0000
From: Micheal Murray <mmcrochunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth
ÂÂÂ position?
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W1754D25F8B36C8945C5972C2820@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256"



Thank you for all your help Winslow



   crocodile hunter
> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:44:52 -0700
> From: winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth positionÃ
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> 
> OK, it appears that the poster is describing pretty much what Michael Rubin described in his reply. If you play Draw 2 on an A harp, that's an E. To play the same E on a G harp, you play Draw 3 but bend it down 2 semitones. 
> 
> Basically you're taking a note name on the A harp, and finding the same note name on the G harp, which will be a different hole/breath/bend.
> 
> Winslow
> 
> Winslow Yerxa
> 
> Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
> 
> --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Micheal Murray <mmcrochunter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Micheal Murray <mmcrochunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] How to i change 2nd position riffs into fourth positionÃ
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 11:18 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heres the link 
> http://harp-l.org/mailman/htdig/harp-l/2009-January/msg00784.html
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get 30 Free Emoticons for your Windows Live Messenger
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> _______________________________________________
> Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
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> http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
> Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:29:19 +0200
From: "Ben FELTEN [ML]" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Greg Szlapczynski + Ian Siegal videos
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <49DD172F.40307@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Last night I attended a concert at the fabled Paris Utopia club. 
Diatonic harmonica player extraordinaire Greg Szlapczynski was hosting a 
concert around the music of Tom Waits and he had invited none other than 
the wonderful Ian Siegal for the occasion.

I took a ton of photos and even a few videos which are currently making 
their way to Youtube. You can find the first one of these here:

http://www.musicalramblings.com/2009/04/ian-siegal-et-greg-szlapczynski-%C3%A0-lutopia.html

If you don't know Ian Siegal and you like blues, expect to be stunned!

All the best,

Benoit


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 14:36:01 -0700
From: "Vern Smith" <jevern@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Something with full-length covers!
To: <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>, <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <77F713609FE947F5A40148A360179A26@user292e480637>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
ÂÂÂ reply-type=original

Mouth comfort is a valid advantage of long covers.

For the following reasons, I doubt that the difference in 
the area of the opening in the back can perceptibly affect 
the sound of the harp.

If a larger opening were louder and better, then the much 
larger openings of chromatics would be perceptibly louder 
and better. I doubt that any of us would agree that such is 
the case. Most diatonic players would argue the reverse.

The % difference in the rear openings between full-length 
and tabbed covers is small...say 10%. Only for the sake of 
argument, assume that the sound energy emitted by the harp 
is proportional to the area. Then a 10% area difference 
(or an energy ratio of .9) would produce only an 
imperceptible 0.5 db difference in sound level.
( 10 x log(.9) = 0.5 db approximately)

Most of the intuitive reasoning about covers assumes that 
they have a major directional effect on the sound, but this 
is not so.

I placed a sound meter about a foot away from the harp in 
front of my face and then 90 degrees to one side. Blowing 
at the same loudness to the best of my ability, there was at 
most a 2 db difference in loudness. This would be a better 
test if the harp were blown by a machine and the meter were 
read by someone besides me but it satisfied me that the harp 
was behaving as the acoustic theory predicts. From an 
opening (under the covers) much smaller than a wavelength, 
the sound waves propagate equally in all directions.

I posit that the effect of differences in cover shape will 
be imperceptible, especially when the harp is hand-cupped.

Vern










Vern



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Winslow Yerxa" <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Something with full-length 
covers!


> >From replies so far, what I'm getting is mouth comfort 
> >factor as the attraction of full-length covers.

> Now I know that diatonic players do place value on opening 
> out the back of harmonica covers. But I've never heard 
> discussion about whether restricting the width of the 
> covers to the reed area (as in Marine Band, Lee Oskar, 
> Special 20, etc) as opposed to running the length of the 
> harp (Golden Melody, Meisterklasse, Suzuki Firebreath, 
> Seydel Favorite, etc.) had any perceived benefit.
> Winslow
>
> Winslow Yerxa




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:44:36 +0000
From: marcos coll <marcos_coll@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] RE:Marine Band Crossover
To: harp forum <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <SNT106-W515A92F4BF80BAB85FACAF9D820@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



Hey Steve!!!!!I really admire your patience and dedication......sometimes looks like a police interrogation ha ha.

It was really fun this weekend at the fair,really we had a great time with you and the muschi muschi food was great!!!!

By the way the crossover is simply great.I love it.

See ya in june!!!



_________________________________________________________________
MÃs rÃpido, sencillo y seguro. DescÃrgate ya el nuevo Internet Explorer 8 ÂEs gratis!
http://www.vivelive.com/ie8 

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Ryan M." <badassbuttercup@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: I NEVER SAID THAT!! - crossover was Re: [Harp-L] Marine
ÂÂÂ BandÂÂÂ Crossover
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <472563.7575.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


I don't think he was purposely trying to misquote you to cause drama because of some personal disagreement you two had. It just looks like he completely misunderstood what you said. He definately needs to be more careful of what he says when he's speaking for other people, but to me it looks like an innocent mistake (granted mistakes like that can cause a lot of problems and drama). As to how he could mistake a post to the list for a personal email, I have no idea.

~Ryan



--- On Wed, 4/8/09, Buddha <groovygypsy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Buddha <groovygypsy@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: I NEVER SAID THAT!! - crossover was Re: [Harp-L] Marine Band Crossover
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 8:33 AM
> Michael Murray
> 
> WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!
> 
> I NEVER sent you an email. What I said about it is what I
> posted on the list.
> 
> Just because I refused to give you FREE lesson doesn't
> mean you have
> to stir the pot this way. I understand you're 12 but
> your age and your
> lack of funds is not my issues. Dealing with me or anybody
> else this
> way isn't gonna get you very far.
> 
> 
> ****
> 
> 
> 
>Â Â Â Â I just had an email from chris michalek about the
> new
> marineband crossover so he told me he was just
> 
>Â Â Â Â off the phone to Joe Filisko and he asked was the
> marine band
> crossover better than the Golden Melody Deluxe
> 
>Â Â Â Â customized by Joe himself and Joe said yes!
> 
>Â Â Â Â And I used to think that customized was better than
> stock and
> it still is better than some but not the marine band
> 
>Â Â Â Â crossover!
> 
> 
> 
>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Well thats my two cents towards the
> marine band
> crossover article!
> _______________________________________________
> Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
> Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Fertig <drfertig@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Frisco bound
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <384310.34623.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I'm coming to San Francisco Apr. 17-19, are there any blues jams in SF (or So. towards SFO) Sunday afternoon? And for Fri or Sat, any exceptional blues, jazz, trad or other fun stuff? Small motor boats to let?  A bar with a flat pool table? 

-Dave Fertig


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 01:35:11 GMT
From: "clydeclc@xxxxxxxx" <clydeclc@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] richard hunter and lee oskar harps
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20090408.203511.5912.0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

richard, 
you have stated many times that the lee oskar's are your main harp. i have also read from many players, who used to use them, that they felt the lo's were hard to bend and did not over blow well.

listening to your music it is easy to tell you don't have those problems. while i am not very good my three lo's seem to bend and over blow as easily as any of my other harps.

i was wondering if you had to set up your lo's different so they would bend and o.b. .... or if you treated them the same as you would any harp.

i have several keys of big river harps and i don't find them as hard to play as many people claim. 

thanks
clyde



____________________________________________________________
Don't work harder, work smarter. Get info on an Online Bachelors here.
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:03:13 EDT
From: SONNYTONE@xxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] email
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <cf7.51e813bd.370e8731@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I am sure Joe Spiers sent me his new email, but I don't have it. Can someone 
please post the email, thank you. I'll be seeing Charlie on Monday night, 
we'll record it. I am out of shape, this is just about having enough strength 
to even get off the couch, to play with one of my idols will just be heaven. 
Iron Horse Cafe in Nothhampton, Mass. - BIGGEST chicken BBQ I have ever seen. 
Great club setting, I saw Dr. John there last year. Please introduce yourself 
if you see me. I look pretty much the same as pics on my site, add a good 5 
hard years to those. Pierre and I have plans to hook up and blow, this is 
fun, doing the Sonny Jr endorser/customer tour. In time, I can only dream about 
things like that right now. Thanks for everything all of you who have pitched 
in, prayed, whatever , thank you. SJ
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


------------------------------

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