Re: [Harp-L] Position Question



Scott Blair wrote:

I get that the positions are based on the circle of fifths, which are major
keys.  I have also read that positions and modes should not be confused.

===COMMENT:

The circle of fifths "which are major keys"? I don't follow. Fifths are just intervals, the distances between one note and another. You find perfect fifths in all types of scales and keys, and no key has all perfect fifths. At a certain point, all keys have one or more diminished fifths.

==SCOTT:

Recently, there have been discussions regarding fourth and fifth positions. 
When I look at and listen to the song examples, these seem to be minor key
tunes.

==COMMENT:

Not surprising, as the default scales - the scales you get without bending any notes - for these positions are minor, therefore the easiest to play.

==SCOTT:

My question is this:  Shouldn't a song in Am be considered first position
since it is the relative minor of C, and a song in Em would be second position
since it is the relative minor of G?  

===COMMENT:

No. In determining positions, relative major and relative minor have no place. In positions only one relationship matters: the relationship between the key f the harp and the key of the song. Again, as you acknowledged earlier in your post, position and mode are not related.

==SCOTT:

Rather than Am being called fourth
position and Em being called fifth position?  It seems that fourth position
should be A Major and fifth position should be E Major.  If not, then would
playing in Cm on a C Major harp be considered first position?  

===COMMENT: Again, major and minor have nothing to do with it, and scales have nothing to do with it either. Why should the key of A on a C harp be considered a different position depending on the scale? By that measure, 90 percent of all second-position playing (e.g., key of G on a C harp but using the C scale) would be considered first position.

However, you've stumbled on something that is often used in harmonica teaching. You can use you understanding of second position (relative major) to help you explore fifth (relative minor), use first (relative major) as a gateway to 4th (relative minor), and use third (relative minor as a way into 12th (relative major).

==SCOTT:

Is there a definitive answer here, or is this an area where people disagree
about the terminology?

===COMMENT:

Yes, there is. 

Labeling the position is simple and straightforward.

Leave behind any side issues like scale, mode, or relative major/minor,

Then use once simple concept: Position is the relationship between the key of the harmonica and the key of the tune you're playing on it. 

Nowadays we draw the numbering system from the circle of fifths, but even that is not central to the concept (which originally used names instead of numbers and only described two or three positions); it's just a logical and convenient way to organize the numbers.

Winslow


      



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