Re: [Harp-L] Combs!

[David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I think the general consensus has been a lack of concern for what the listener hears, and more interest in what the player hears. 

Dave
____________________
Dave Payne Sr. 
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: Vern Smith <jevern@xxxxxxx>
To: Richard HarpL Sleigh <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>; Richard Sleigh <rharp@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:42:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Combs!


.----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Sleigh" <rharp@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Richard HarpL Sleigh" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: [Harp-L] Combs!


> If you don't think comb material makes a difference in the sound of a 
> harmonica, I have a couple of experiments for you to try out:
>
> Take a 1/4" thick piece of foam core board and make a comb out of it.  Add 
> reed plates & covers and play. Can you hear a difference now? How  about 
> rubber?

That is exactly the experiment that was conducted at the SPAH 97 seminar. 
We had combs of two types of plastic foam, doussie wood, black and clear 
plastic, balsa wood, titanium, aluminum, concrete and lead.  None of the 
listeners could tell whether the same or a different material was used for 
successive plays...much less identify the material.  We did not have a 
rubber comb because it is kinda hard to fabricate.

> Some materials reflect sound, some absorb it. An unsealed pearwood  comb 
> absorbs some frequencies that a sealed pearwood comb reflects  and 
> amplifies. That is my experience, what my ears tell me. I also  hear 
> differences between  brass, aluminum, and other materials. Sure,  you 
> could mess me up if I had to listen to someone else play the  harps while 
> I was bilndfolded, but there is a difference between how  I play and what 
> I hear through bone conduction, etc.

It seems that you and many others are ready to concede that materials do not 
affect harp tone enough for a listener to perceive any differences.  That 
seems to me to be granting about 99% of my argument that there is no 
perceptible effect.

> If we really want to settle this once and for all, there are devices  that 
> can measure sound and quantify it much better than most humans.  That 
> would be much more scientific.

There may be differences that can be detected in spectrograms.  However, 
this discussion is about whether or not they are perceptible to the human 
ear.

> I was not at the comb trials that have been referenced, but at best  they 
> were empirical science. Not definitive proof. If someone  recorded samples 
> and produced voiceprints or some other spectrum  anaylisis visuals; and 
> they came up identical for different  materials, I would be willing to 
> believe that my ears are fooling me  when I hear differences in comb 
> material.

Very many people sincerely believe that they can hear differences and that 
"wood is warm".  However, no one so far has been able to demonstrate this 
ability under controlled conditions.  A lot of people went to a lot of 
trouble to set up conditions under which the "comb materials effect"  could 
have appeared.  Although I'm not going to list their names, there were some 
top-notch harmonica performers among the listeners.  This was a group of 
harmonica experts at a harmonica convention, not just a crowd off the 
street.

Vern 


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