[Harp-L] (no subject)

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quotes labeled ""a)"", etc... are by Tom Halchak,  all other quotes  
are from Smokey Joe:

""b)      There is no conclusive proof that comb material makes much
difference - however,""

"Why does it have to be proven? Doesn't a person's personal feelings  
play a part?"

No.  Whether comb material effects the timbre, volume, etc... of a  
harmonica is a question of mechanical and physical facts.  It's a  
scientific question, much like whether a higher octane count in  
gasoline improves the performance of a combustion engine (better yet,  
a specific combustion engine).  It can be tested, measured and known.


" I mean, what is this, some kind of a contest? I mean, if it's  
proven or dis-proven would that make the world spin slower/ faster?  
Why can't a person feel that they can perceive a difference? "


Please feel free to believe whatever you want.  But that is a  
completely different issue to whether or not comb material has an  
effect on the performance of the harmonica.  Talking about the later  
and the attempt to discern for a fact what is actually going on need  
not effect the former, ie individual's personal preferences and even  
their beliefs.  Though, if both tests and theory indicate that comb  
material makes no difference, then an individual who chooses to  
believe that comb material does make a difference has no logical  
ground to stand on.  But that doesn't mean that they aren't free to  
believe whatever they want.  If they want to believe that a harmonica  
made on the seventh day of the seventh month sounds better than any  
other one, then so be it.  But it would be no more or less ridiculous  
than believing in comb material as a difference (given the current  
tests and theory).


"Isn't it possible that there are ringing overtones, microtones, or  
vibrations that a player prefers from one material in preference to  
another material. Why does everything center on whether the listeners  
can hear a difference?"


Because those are the tests that have so far been done.  Feel free to  
create other controlled tests of the player and see what the results  
are.  But, it is much harder to control for the player being blind to  
the material than a listener, so creating the proper conditions would  
be more difficult.  You would need a wide sample of players, to begin  
with.  In any event, most of the theories for why a player would hear  
a difference have been discussed, and frankly dismissed pretty easily  
(this includes things such as bone conduction).


"It's like the silly tourage about tuning. There's just, equal, 12-  
tet, and yada yada. There was an 11 man ensenble at spah and  
deducting the Wizard Winslow's baritone harp, and Stan Bowe's bass  
harp, the other 9 players were playing mostly 64 reed chromos (some  
used 48s) , AND they were DIFFERENT makes & models.."


All probably tuned to 12TET, as most chromatics and bass-harps are.   
Issues of intonation, tuning and temperament have been crucial to  
every musical culture to have existed, so why not harmonicas?


"I mean golly gosh guys, I can pick up 3 IDENTICAL Hohners in the  
same key and they will all have subtle differences. Are these  
differences enough to nail down definitively? No, but they are still  
there. I had a Toots hard bopper that used to sit on a Circassian  
Walnut comb. When I mounted the plates on a bronze comb, I could tell  
the difference. Now, it is true that maybe I changed something ELSE  
in the overall dynamics without realizing it, and maybe those change 
(s) HAD an effect. I don't know. "


I would suggest that the only effect needed to explain what you heard  
is psychological.  You knew there was a difference in the comb,  
therefore you heard a difference in the sound.  The psychological  
effect of expectation, or even simply knowledge is a massive force.   
It is why blind studies are needed, and why so much effort in any  
testing must be focused on eliminating that foreknowledge of the  
conditions.


""c) Those that do believe comb material produces a different sound are
prone to seek out and experiment with different materials - and there  
are
plenty available.""

"So this shouldn't be a crime"


It is not a crime.  But that doesn't mean that comb material makes a  
difference to the sound of the harmonica.  The two don't follow.   
Indeed, if comb material makes no difference, then trying out any  
material one wants for whatever reason becomes even more reasonable-- 
try it, since it doesn't matter what the material is anyway.




 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()
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