[Harp-L] Re: Question re: blue notes and micro-tonality

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> 	Certainly, blue notes are  ranges of pitches. Whether, when and  
> how much or little the blue note in question is flatted,  if  and  
> when the bend is released and in what direction the bend goes and  
> to what extent is so essential to the aesthetic of blues and a so  
> much a part of each player's individual style.  But there are  
> serious blues players (guitarists as well as harmonica players) who  
> place importance upon playing the blue (quarter tone flat) third.   
> Musicians who use it claim that this note really "sings."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  Of course blue notes  
are an essential and even defining feature of the blues, and are  
extremely important as such.  I really haven't seen anyone arguing  
differently in this thread.  What confuses me is that  on the one  
hand  you claim to understand and even agree with the idea that blue  
note is a range, but then again fixate on the idea of the blue third  
as a "quarter tone flat" against the I chord as if it is a specific  
note.  I think what people are trying to describe is that blue notes  
are not a single, easily defined pitch, but rather a way of talking  
about a larger set of pitches and pitch-usage, in which there may be  
tendencies and specific usages.  It seems to me like you are trying  
to force this theory and concept into some sort of scale which then  
ignores the ideas of pitch ranges and resolution which may be as or  
more important than something like the amount of flattening used.

> Clearly, it is a non-Western (African or African-American) tonality.

Absolutely, which is why Western terminology (including "quarter- 
tone") has a hard time describing either the phenomenon or the idea.

> 	I have played with an older black keyboard player who was  
> originally from the deep south (U.S.) who would the play third of a  
> major chord by first hitting the minor third and then very very  
> quickly sliding off that key to the major third,  which seems to  
> approximate a blue third.

A very old and often described technique amongst jazz and blues  
keyboardists.

> 	There is a post somewhere in the harp-L archives where the author  
> said something to the effect that you can tell an amateur blues  
> harmonica player if he plays the third a quarter tone flat on the I  
> chord but does not play the same note a full half step flat when  
> the same note is played as a 7 on the IV chord.  I'm not saying I  
> necessarily agree with this, but it gave me the idea that some  
> people on this list may know a great deal more about this whole  
> blue note thing than I do.

They may, but I'm not sure you're listening.  I think the post by  
Steve Baker was an attempt to answer the question, but I guess it's  
not the answer you want.


> 	 But, yes the blue  notes are certainly ranges of pitches.  I'm  
> curious if there was a tradition of playing  these  pitches in a  
> certain manner in relation to particular other aspects of what was  
> going on in the tune.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't.  I've never seen studies on it, but  
it would certainly make for a good PhD thesis.  I would also bet that  
the way the musicians talk/ed about this was not at all using Western  
terminology or theory.  That is not an unimportant thing.  IMO, we  
cannot truly understand the the physical aspects of what was played  
without understanding the ways these were viewed within that  
culture.  Thus, there may be tendencies and typical usages, but the  
way the players described it would be as important as the specifics,  
and sometimes more illuminating.

Let's take a hypothetical example of the blue third.  If someone had  
said, "you want to choke it, but not as much here [plays a I chord]  
as here [plays a IV chord]" that would indicate several things.   
First, that for this person at least (and interviews with others  
could determine if this is an individual style or more general) the  
way the blue third is used differs based on the chord played and  
where it lies in the song.  Second, that these are seen as a  
continuity of pitch rather than discrete events--they are both the  
"blue note", but just variation of that note.  That would get to the  
idea of the blue note as a range of pitches with varied usages within  
that range, rather than a discrete note in the Western sense.  In  
this hypothetical, both concepts (and others in fact) are equally  
important.  I would suggest that this may be a better way to look at  
the blue notes than one which says "always play a quarter tone here  
and a semi-tone here", rather "this one is flatter than that one, but  
they are the same idea".

> I'm just curious about the origins and if there is some theoretical  
> or stylistic aspect to this that is not shrouded in the mists of  
> history.  I'm not into playing "just like the record" but we can  
> all  a lot from listening to what great performers have recorded.

I think the origins are completely lost.  Most of the people involved  
are dead and left no written or oral history of why they played what  
they played when.  As for usage, that can be gleaned from recordings  
fairly well, and as I said there may very well be a lot of  
information out there as to the usage of blue notes, but it might  
require effort to find.  It might also be worth looking into studies  
of guitar playing and how the blue notes were used there, as well as  
singing.  Indeed, I'm sure there have been studies of blues singing  
to better understand the blue notes.






 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()
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