Re: [Harp-L] Re: Enharmonics

[Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>]

It is possible to have a neutral reference point. 



It is possible to describe without judging.



it is possible to compare fairly and note the virtues and drawbacks of
the two things compared, without biasing the comparison by making one the standard for judging
the other.



By the way, what is a pundit?



Winslow

--- On Thu, 9/4/08, IcemanLE@xxxxxxx <IcemanLE@xxxxxxx> wrote:
From: IcemanLE@xxxxxxx <IcemanLE@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Enharmonics
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 11:20 AM

whew, this is the pundit/exception stuff - makes for interesting reading,  
though.
 
<<Using one system as the standard to make what sounds like a value 
judgment 
of another system seems inappropriate.>>
 
Reminds me of the old joke:
 
Jewish mother bought her son two shirts for his birthday. He says "Thanks,
 
Mom. I'll try them on". He goes upstairs and puts on a shirt, comes
down to 
show  her and says "What do you think?" She replies "The other
shirt you didn't  
like?"
 
Point being, we all need a reference point from which to judge - no  matter 
which point we choose, it is easy for someone else to say "The other 
shirt you 
didn't like?". 
 
While this could be a true statement, what's the point besides punditing 
in
to an argument? And what would the point of the argument be besides differing  
points of view?
 
I would put forth that the JI harmonicas, the 3rd and 7th sound out of tune  
to the ear of those who are used to the sound of ET. They will sound a little  
flat.
 
Whose ears are used to the sound of ET? Why, I'd venture to guess about 99%
 
or more of those on this list.
 
However, to preface all comments and/or statements with a total disclaimer  
about all the exceptions that exist, alternate tunings that are possible,  
alternate realities that a few live in seems somehow ponderous and unnecessary 
to 
get the "meat" of the information across simply and cleanly.
 
I'll agree to stand corrected by those that wish to be the "ultimate 
proper 
dissemination of all knowledge police" (UPDAKP), but I'll still post 
based on 
our common denominator which includes coming from the place of ET as my  
first reference point. 
 
And, I'm not afraid to say that a lot of old traditional blues,  (guitar 
tunings, harmonica notes, some singing) do, to my ears, sound out of  tune. Not

bad, mind you, but out of tune. 
 
Thanks for the interesting extra info and offering your own personal  
reference point, Winslow.
 
The Iceman
 
 
In a message dated 9/4/2008 12:28:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx writes:

The 3rd  and 7th you refer to below are not out of tune. They are in tune 
with the  simple ratios you get when you divide the length of the string to get

the  harmonica (or overtone) series.

All the harmonic intervals in just  intonation reinforce the root note of the 
chord because they  

1)  Don't produce the unpleasant beating that equal-tempered intervals  
produce

2) they generate additional notes above and below (difference  tones, where 
you subtract one frequency from another, and combination tones,  where you add 
one frequency to another) that are also in tune and make the  chord sound even 
bigger. The difference tones generated by equal tempered  intervals sound out 
of tune.

As to blues sounding out of tune, I have  to ask - with what? Blues has its 
own "in tune" intervals that  characteristically sound like blues but
don't 
match the equal tempered scale.  Using one system as the standard to make what 
sounds like a value judgment of  another system seems  inappropriate.




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