Re: [Harp-L] Question: Equal Temperament Tuning on Golden MElody

David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> · Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:08:12 -0700 (PDT)

Somebody is going to bust me for saying this, I'm sure, and throw some fancy data, science, math and whatnot at me, but my ear tells that it is different somehow from a harmonica. I hear a EQ piano chord and say "oh, I guess that's a piano chord." I hear a EQ harmonica chord and say "this blows." 

  I suspect with the harmonica, the difference is that the harp sustains  notes. Guitar, piano, whatever, you hit the chord, it rings, then dies. A harmonica chord hangs there and says "evaluate me."
  I hold a good JI chord on a harp, it sometimes gives me chills.BUT, you chop chord a JI and an EQ, you hear virtually no difference over the very short duration of a beat.
   That is the difference I see. 

  Dave
  ____________________________
Dave Payne Sr. 
  Elk River Harmonicas
  www.elkriverharmonicas.com 

Arnold Wiliem <arnoldw.id@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
    Haha yea, everything is subjective. It depends on the context also. 

By the way, I just don't understand why in Piano or Keyboard, they can play both melody and chords without changing the tuning?

Arnold

  On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 7:44 AM, David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  Winslow's reply is rock solid, that's precisely what's going on. I will, however, West Virginiaify it: chords suck on equal temperment harmonicas. If you don't play chords, you'll probably take to EQ like wild hogs to an apple orchard. If you play in five bazillion positions you'll probably LOVE EQ.
 Me, I think it sucks.
 Like everything with the harmonica, it is EXTREMELY subjective. I'm not that crazy about compromise-tuned chords even. Why? The chords sound OK to me on compromise, but dead. That's because I have been spoiled with the grace and beauty of Just Intonation. Flat spoiled, y'all.
 When I hit the cross-harp draw chord, I want to FEEL those soundwaves interact, I want to hear that rich sound of those chords. I sit sometimes with a Seydel Hochlandklange, just drawing and blowing and feeling those chords. can't really play a whole lot on it, because I never got to the point of trying to play songs on it. I just listen to those interactions. It's hypnotic
  I hit draw chords on my diatonics, mostly JI, all the time just to hear it sound.
 As far as chords go, with Just Intonation, it sounds to me like the exhaust of a 1969 Chrysler 440 engine Six Pack, headers, glasspack exhaust, three inch diameter tailpipes, all six carburetor barrels wide open, engine redlining nice, rich, throaty exhaust sound. It's rich.  I like to hear JI for the exact same reason I like listening to the above engine run.

 So, to sum, Just Intonation = equals the sound of the General Lee (1969 Dodge Charger) with a load of moonshine in the trunk, pedal to the floor.

 Compromise, I hear the exhaust a Chrysler 318 from the mid 80s, catalytic converter. I mean, it's OK, it could, in theory, outrun some cops, it's not really THAT boring, but doesn't get me excited.
 Compromise = The sound of my first car, a 1983 Dodge truck I suped up.

 Equal temperment chords sound to me like granny driving her Volkswagen Rabbit to church every Sunday. She can't find third gear and she uses the clutch for a footrest.
 Equal temperment = the sound of "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em."

 I give one of my JI harps some guys to play some operas and whatnot with, they'll say "My god that 5 draw is FLAT!"

 All is subjective. All.

 I'll put something up on this, Arnold.

 Dave
 ______________________________
Dave Payne Sr.
 Elk River Harmonicas
 www.elkriverharmonicas.com

Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 The best place to get both an explanation and audio examples related to harmonica is at Pat Missin's website:

http://patmissin.com/tunings/tunings.html

Briefly, equal temperament is better for melodies, especially melodies that contain a lot of chromatic notes (Because the notes are mathematically figured to be the same distance apart from one note to the next in the 12-note chromatic scale). However, chords can sound rough in equal temperament, and the harmonica tends to make the problem very obvious.

By contrast, you can create a just scale by deriving the pitches of notes from a single starting note (such as C) by dividing the frequency (vibrations per second) of that note by simple numbers (1,2,3,4,5,6,7, etc.). When you do this, the chord notes that go with that root note will harmonize very fully and smoothly with the root note and will reinforce it in several ways, making for great, full-sounding, ringing chords. However, some of the individual notes in a scale constructed this way can sound out of tune when played as melody notes, and the problem gets worse as you add notes from the chromatic scale.

History is full of compromises and workarounds for the opposing problems inherent in these two solutions.

Winslow

--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Arnold Wiliem wrote:
From: Arnold Wiliem
  Subject: [Harp-L] Question: Equal Temperament Tuning on Golden MElody
To: "Harp L Harp L"

  Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 8:54 PM

Dear All,

I know this is a newbie question. But until now, I don't get it what're
the
advantages and differences the Equal temperament tuning on Hohner Golden
Melody compared to other tuning arrangement? Is it possible for me to tell
the tuning type just from ears? Could you guys give me an example (a melody
or song) that shows the differences?

Cheers,
Arnold
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