Re: [Harp-L] New Hohner star theory

[Payne David <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I've got no idea what they were thinking, that's just what it was a symbol of... that wasn't really even conjecture on my part, I'd say they just liked how it looked. I'm not really too concerned about where they got the idea, the theory I'm putting forward is the five-point star was derived from the cresent moon and star trademark and the six-sided star that was used later came from Weiss. 
I think there was some limited use of the six-sided star before Weiss was assimilated in 1928, and Otto Weiss came aboard, but not long after that, the six-sided star, which was the Weiss trademark, replaced the five-sided star on virtually everything. 

And I don't think the Hohner boys were penning any "Selling to Instanbul."  I'd say the Hohner poem was more like this:
"Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
Who cares? We're doing bodacious business with the Turks." 

Dave
___________________
Dave Payne Sr. 
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: Bradford Trainham <bradford.trainham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Payne David <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 1:49:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] New Hohner star theory

!!Wow!!
Eastern Roman empire?
Do you suppose that poem we all thought W. B. Yeats wrote... Was really
authored by one of those Hohner boys... And that its real title was supposed
to be
Not "Sailing to Byzantium"... But "Selling To Istanbul"???
The more history must be revised..., the more I tend to repeat myself...
Repeat myself... Repeat myself...
Brad (Historiographus Histrionicus) Trainham


-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Payne David
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:53 AM
To: Harp L Harp L
Subject: [Harp-L] New Hohner star theory

I've been looking at trademarks and I had one of those Eureka ideas a while
back, one of those ideas that hit you while you are driving in the car. I've
been meaning to post this for about two weeks now, but I've been extremely
busy. I've heard that the Hohner star represented the Hohner kids in the
biz, which a lot of folks refute cause the use of the star, five point and
six point, makes no sense. 
What I offer here is purely circumstantial, but interesting nonetheless and
I think is the most plausible explanation presented thus far on the
prewar Hohner trademark star.
Hohner isn't the only one to have used the star. 

Here's some others
Five point star- Jacob Birk, Trossingen. 

Six point star-
Adolf Duerrschmidt
Carl Essbach
Emil "Horn Dog" Friedel,
Carl Herold
Armin Liebmann
Christian Weiss
Otto Reichelt

I've got some Hohner New Best QUality Harps, the harp that became the Old
Standby from around WWI. On those, Hohner pairs the 5-point star with a moon
in what is identical to the crescent moon/star of Islam, but the symbol is
older than Islam, so Hohner might have been thinking of the Eastern Roman
Empire, the contemporary Ottoman Empire or maybe just liked the way it
looked, of the three, I'd guess he just liked the way it looked. I have no
idea where Hohner came up with the crescent moon and star, but I believe the
five-point star came from that early pairing with the crescent moon. It's
not just the N.B.Q. harps, an early Hohner trademark has the crescent moon
and star as well. Many companies looked to the heavens for trademarks, there
were many companies using stars, and many companies (Seydel is one) who used
a sun.

So this same star also finds its way on the back of prewar Mouse Ear Marine
Bands, Old Standbys etc. 

Now, here was the Eureka moment.... the six point star. The six-point star
starts appearing on Marine Bands, when, the late 1920s, early 1930s? 
Of the seven companies who used the SIX point star on their trademark, one
is especially significant. When Hohner left the clock biz, he saw the
harmonica as a big moneymaker. He tried to get hired on with Messner to
learn the trade, but Messner told him to take a hike. 
So Hohner makes buddies with Weiss, Messner's nephew who was starting his
own harp company. He would go over to Weiss' shop and hang out with Weiss,
looking over his shoulder the whole time and learn how harps were made while
supposedly shooting the bull. Messner eventually got on and threw him out,
but Hohner got his education.
Over the following decades, Hohner buried the Weiss company. In the 1920s,
the Weiss heir died leaving the company to a brother, Otto Weiss. He sold
the company to Hohner in 1928 to Hohner. Part of that deal was Otto got a
management position at Hohner.
The Weiss trademark was simply a big six-point star with a "W" inside of it.
It wasn't long at all after Hohner owned that trademark and Otto Weiss was
on board with Hohner in a management position that the six-pointed star
appears on Marine Bands, etc. There are numerous other examples when Hohner
used trademarks of assimilated companies... so it makes sense to me.

I think that's the most plausible explanation yet. 

Dave
____________________________________
Dave Payne Sr. 
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
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