[Harp-L] Re: Gary Smith
Gary sent me a message after gigging with his Cruncher, a nice review . I
would suggest getting his Blues for Mr. B CD. .. The quote was: "
Hi Gary &Kay, debuted the amp with my band last night at jj's blues club
here in town...got many curious and blown away harp fans.The sound guy of some
years at the club was floored.He said it was the best tone he ever mixed and
concluded,"this one's got the magic!!Just thought i'd share...hope all's well,
gary"sunnyvale slim"Smith
Thank you.
In a message dated 6/24/2008 1:43:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
harp-l-request@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Harp-L digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: tuner (David Payne)
2. Re: 6 Overblow (Rick Dempster) (Joel Thomas)
3. Re: Re: Re: [Harp-L] tuner (Tim Moyer)
4. Re: Which tuning (Mike Fugazzi)
5. Re: tuner (Joe Spiers)
6. Painted vs. Shiny (unpainted) coverplates (captron100@xxxxxxx)
7. Blues Birdhead (captron100@xxxxxxx)
8. Re: tuner (Vern Smith)
9. Re: tuner (Richard Hammersley)
10. Re: Blues Birdhead (michael rubin)
11. music sw (don bateman)
12. Re: Painted vs. Shiny (unpainted) coverplates (John F. Potts)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:27:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tuner
To: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <403193.86085.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Tim Moyer <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I can't imagine trying to tune very much using a $30 tuner. In that
case, I would probably use the tuner to set a reference reed and tune
the rest of the harp relative to the reference rather than to the
tuner.
-tim
Yes, Tim's right, that's really the only way to do it very well. Use the
tuner for reference pitch at 1 blow, etc., then tune the rest of the harp by ear
from that. I've got a friend who tunes harmonicas for a living at a harp
factory, he says for tuning his stuff at home, he uises a Petersen strobe tuner
sometimes, but it is not as accurate a tuner as his ear. Most of us will
probably never get to that point, my ear is not as accurate, but there is some
potential there if you're willing to train the ear.
All that said, it would be easier to buy a strobe tuner.
Dave
_________________________________
Dave Payne Sr.
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:27:42 -0700
From: "Joel Thomas" <theloveboxquartet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Re: 6 Overblow (Rick Dempster)
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1214317662.20807.1260112485@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Rick, yeah the growl on the 7 and 8 blow bend is great, but I still
can't find the overblow on Mean Low Blues, I've pitched the tune up a
semitone to G, instead of the awkward Fsharp on the recording, and I
think I can play it all the way through without an overblow (which I
can't do very well anyway) Please enlighten me...
Do you know when the next example of an overblow occurred?
Cheers,
Joel.
--
Joel Thomas
theloveboxquartet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:04:25 -0000
From: "Tim Moyer" <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Harp-L] tuner
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <g3r2dp+1loe@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
john thaden wrote:
> Yes, the strobe types give you information on the pitch of higher
> harmonics (though I'm pretty sure many strobe scope users don't
> use that information), but are they really better at identifying
> the pitch of the fundamental? Can someone with both types please
> put this to the test?
My issue is not with the accuracy of the tuner, it's with the
convenience. Many things these inexpensive tuners do as a "feature"
are inconvenient when you're tuning harmonicas. Someone else noted
the relatively weak fundamental frequencies of a note sounded on a
harmonica, and this can often result in the tuner having trouble
identifying and locking in the intended note. If the tuner doesn't
have the ability to dial the desired note, this can be a problem.
Sometimes when a reed needs to be moved a long way in pitch the tuner
will identify the closest note, not the desired note. And I, for
one, use the frequencies of the harmonics. I suspect the percentage
of people using this feature is higher among techs - to whom the
question was directed - than it might be among the general population
of people using tuners to tune harmonicas. Tuners with automatic
note detection also have a delay in response that can be a problem.
My Korg OT-12 has a switchable "speed" setting for how fast it will
respond.
I certainly didn't mean it couldn't be done or even done well, I was
only saying that techs are probably not doing a lot of work with $30
tuners.
-tim
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:15:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Fugazzi <mfugazzi67@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Which tuning
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <98641.31155.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks guys!
I picked up a Korg 30 tuner. I noodled with one key of C harp. After
reading Pat Missin's page, I thought I would try tuning the draw reads to 443khz.
Would I do this for the blow reads too? The theory on the draw reads
seemed to be that if you hit them dead on at 443, then when you play live (and in
my case a little harder) the notes would be closer to 440khz. Hopefully I
was on the right track because that's what I did.
The harp was way sharp on the blow reeds, so I tuned them down to 443khz and
thought I'd stop there. When playing scales/octaves the harp sounded good.
I think 12TET is the way to go for me. I play a lot of third, eleventh, and
fourth position. I am also getting more and more into third.
Wow, I had been testing by bends againt an online tuner by ear. I thought I
was spot on, but my Kory would disagree. Back to the wood shed!!!
Mike Fugazzi
Harmonica/Vocals
http://www.myspace.com/mikefugazzi
"Music should be healing; music should uplift the soul; music should
inspire. There is no better way of getting closer to God, of rising higher
towards the spirit, of attaining spiritual perfection than music, if only it is
rightly understood."
-Hazrat Inayat Khan
--- On Tue, 6/24/08, mfugazzi67 <mfugazzi67@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: mfugazzi67 <mfugazzi67@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Which tuning
To: mfugazzi67@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:04 AM
--- In harp-l-archives@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tim Moyer"
<wmharps@...>
wrote:
capt ron wrote:
> Great observation, thanks. What tunings do people who play in 12
> position usually prefer - equal temperment?
Obviously, there's no one right answer. The best temperament for a
tuning is probably best dictated by the style of the player. The
original poster said he rarely used chords, and that he played in
different positions, but never mentioned 12th specifically. I just
picked that as an example. In another example, just intonation would
place the 2, 5 and 8 blow notes - E on a C harp and the tonic in 5th
position - something like 14 cents flat of 12TET.
Someone who rarely plays chords is not going to get a lot of benefit
from a temperament that optimizes the consonance of chords, but might
see some problems with the intonation of individual notes. The
deviation from 12TET and where those notes fall in the scale will
make
that more or less of a problem. Another issue might be the need to
double other chromatic instruments. Those players would probably be
better served by 12TET.
-tim
_______________________________________________
Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
Harp-L@...
http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
--- End forwarded message ---
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:18:08 -0500
From: "Joe Spiers" <joemopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tuner
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000901c8d60d$82000f20$0203a8c0@joeo74cg42620q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
This link is from the FAQ on Peterson's website. It explains why
digital tuners' displays are not as accurate. It isn't just marketing
hype to sell expensive tuners.
http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=85&sub=84
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:20:55 -0400
From: captron100@xxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] Painted vs. Shiny (unpainted) coverplates
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <8CAA425081E6756-BC0-B5B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John F. Potts wrote:
........I asked Oz Leguizamo at Suzuki customer service about
this. Oz told me that the Promasters and the Hammonds are made to
identical specifications, but because the Hammonds have painted cover
plates, the tone is darker. ......snip...... There is a subtle,
but definite, difference in tone when a harp has painted cover
plates. Sometimes, I used to wonder if it was just my imagination.
But now, after talking to Oz and Antony, my belief has been
validated.
John, why dontcha switch covers on the two models and give yourself a blind
test? Let us know the
results.
ron
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:43:18 -0400
From: captron100@xxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] Blues Birdhead
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <8CAA428289D036F-BC0-D84@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I had a lot of trouble trying to listen to Mean Low Blues from the
Amazon.com link that Rick sent.
Finally i discovered that if I scrolled down to the song list, i could click
the arrow to the left
of the song title, to enable me to hear it. It sounds to me like this
version is in first position
using an F harp, but it is slow and therefore flat.
Then harmoniman@comcast sent this link:
http://www.authentichistory.com/1930s/music/1929-Mean_Low_Blues.html , which
is the full song. This
seems to be in F# in first position, except that there is a low note that
isn't on my F# harp (about
9/10th of the way thru the song).
Whatever, this song is a workout in both first or second position, entailing
lots of
opportunities to use OB's. Fun stuff that could keep you occupied for days,
if not years! It also
has a couple of examples of that growl which we've talked about before on
harp-L (about 6/10th of
the way thru) but at that time I didn't have the song to listen to, so i had
little idea of what
the posters were talking about. But that growl appears to be on a the OB'd 4
blow. I'm gonna save
this link. If anyone can shed light on what's going on in this song, i
would be very interested.
This was great. Thanks for sending that link.
ron
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:50:36 -0700
From: "Vern Smith" <jevern@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tuner
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>, "David Payne" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000a01c8d612$0b5a45c0$c701000a@user292e480637>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Because the pitches of reeds (especially the low ones) vary (inversely) so
much with breath pressure, it seems to me that spending a lot of money on an
electronic tuner is pointless. For this reason, I posit that a $20 Korg
CA-30 chromatic tuner is entirely adequate for a harmonica. Pianos and
organs may be different. When I tune with a meter, I always have to ask
myself, "Am I using the same breath pressure with which I play?"
The CA-30 turns off after 20 minutes of idleness, produces output reference
tones, and has a 1/4" audio input jack. It has a liquid-crystal display
calibrated in cents that simulates a meter as well as sharp/flat lights. It
is about the size of a cell phone.
I had a Boss meter for my guitar but it didn't hear the highest notes on the
harp. Take a harp with you when you buy your tuner and make sure that it
hears the full range up to D7.
Have someone else who can't see a meter try to blow consistently accurate A
= 440 tones while you watch the needle. Then trade with them. If you do
well, it will be because you have a good ear for pitch, However, if you do
have a good ear for pitch, that is another reason that you don't need an
expensive tuner.
Pick up a harp that sounds "in tune" when you play it and have someone else
write down the pitches of all of the notes from a tuner you can't see. You
will be surprised at the variation. IF you have an exceptional ear, then
all you need is a tuning fork.
I previously tuned my guitar with a tuning fork. That works fine if
everything is quiet but the electronic tuner works a lot better when other
instruments are noodling in the background.
Vern
Visit my harmonica website www.Hands-Free-Chromatic.7p.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Payne" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Harp L Harp L" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tuner
>
>
> Tim Moyer <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I can't imagine trying to tune very much using a $30 tuner. In that
> case, I would probably use the tuner to set a reference reed and tune
> the rest of the harp relative to the reference rather than to the
> tuner.
>
> -tim
>
>
>
> Yes, Tim's right, that's really the only way to do it very well. Use the
> tuner for reference pitch at 1 blow, etc., then tune the rest of the harp
> by ear from that. I've got a friend who tunes harmonicas for a living at a
> harp factory, he says for tuning his stuff at home, he uises a Petersen
> strobe tuner sometimes, but it is not as accurate a tuner as his ear. Most
> of us will probably never get to that point, my ear is not as accurate,
> but there is some potential there if you're willing to train the ear.
> All that said, it would be easier to buy a strobe tuner.
>
>
> Dave
> _________________________________
> Dave Payne Sr.
> Elk River Harmonicas
> www.elkriverharmonicas.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
> Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
> http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:59:26 +0100
From: Richard Hammersley <rhhammersley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tuner
To: Joe Spiers <joemopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Harp L Harp L
<harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <F6EC2B94-19C9-49C1-8893-3611989A5766@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
The next question is whether the physical characteristics and decay of
harmonica reeds are generally stable enough to be tunable to this
accuracy. I know that with guitar strings the answer is, broadly,
'no'. They go out of tune relatively quickly and also the attack, peak
and decay of a string, particularly the lower ones, varies in pitch
and overtones. Same applies to pianos (hence the use of human piano
tuners rather than very accurate electronic tuners). You can go nuts
with too accurate a tuner trying to get the string spot on and,
meantime, another one has wandered off pitch, or the guitar neck has
shifted infintesimally under changed pressure, changing tuning.
>From previous discussion it sounds as if this may apply also to fixed
reeds? I appreciate that tuning a harmonica is 'for keeps' not a daily
activity, but nonetheless might too much electronic accuracy actually
be a problem relative to the ear?
Richard
On 24 Jun 2008, at 16:18, Joe Spiers wrote:
> This link is from the FAQ on Peterson's website. It explains why
> digital tuners' displays are not as accurate. It isn't just
> marketing hype to sell expensive tuners.
>
> http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=85&sub=84
> _______________________________________________
> Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
> Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
> http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
Richard Hammersley
Grantshouse, Scottish Borders
http://www.last.fm/music/Richard+Hammersley
http://www.myspace.com/rhammersley
http://www.myspace.com/magpiesittingdown
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:07:13 -0500
From: "michael rubin" <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Blues Birdhead
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<7a6803880806241007u22549b39hd498436122ae810b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Okay, this song Mean Low Blues is credited as being recorded in 1929, I
thought the Birdhead recording with an overblow was in 1931. I listened to
the tune and was not able to distinguish the overblow. Since the link
provides the time, what minute and second does the overblow occur? I heard
growl sounds, but it did not seem like overblowing to me. Ron says the
overblow is on the 4 hole during the growl section. Having never heard the
tune, I was under the impression the overblow was on 6 blow.
Help anybody? Winslow?
Thanks,
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com
On 6/24/08, captron100@xxxxxxx <captron100@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> I had a lot of trouble trying to listen to Mean Low Blues from the
> Amazon.com link that Rick sent.
> Finally i discovered that if I scrolled down to the song list, i could
> click the arrow to the left
> of the song title, to enable me to hear it. It sounds to me like this
> version is in first position
> using an F harp, but it is slow and therefore flat.
> Then harmoniman@comcast sent this link:
> http://www.authentichistory.com/1930s/music/1929-Mean_Low_Blues.html ,
> which is the full song. This
> seems to be in F# in first position, except that there is a low note that
> isn't on my F# harp (about
> 9/10th of the way thru the song).
> Whatever, this song is a workout in both first or second position,
> entailing lots of
> opportunities to use OB's. Fun stuff that could keep you occupied for
> days, if not years! It also
> has a couple of examples of that growl which we've talked about before on
> harp-L (about 6/10th of
> the way thru) but at that time I didn't have the song to listen to, so i
> had little idea of what
> the posters were talking about. But that growl appears to be on a the OB'd
> 4 blow. I'm gonna save
> this link. If anyone can shed light on what's going on in this song, i
> would be very interested.
> This was great. Thanks for sending that link.
> ron
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
> Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx
> http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:20:31 -0500
From: "don bateman" <donbateman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] music sw
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000a01c8d61e$9b596870$2459c84c@DonBateman>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
If writing lead sheets etc. on the computer interests you, here's a tip. I
rec'd Finale SongWriter as a F-Day gift. Having tried several of the free
trial apps and found them lacking, I am happy to say that this one works and,
is user friendly.
P.S. My HarpTrax backups are being well received. We're even working on a
CD for Diatonic.
Regards, db
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:25:56 -0400
From: "John F. Potts" <hvyj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Painted vs. Shiny (unpainted) coverplates
To: john <jjthaden@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <714F0ABB-616F-467C-9F83-CD5DC349A594@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I have swapped covers, putting black covers from an old Pro Harp on
an old Special 20 and, yes, the Special 20 sounds darker and warmer
(to my ear) with the painted Pro Harp covers on it. However, some
players claim to hear no difference between these two harmonicas in
the first place, When i have time, I'll try it with the Suzukis and
let you what i think.
JP
Jun 24, 2008, at 8:19 AM, john wrote:
> Back in the days of hot dispute about the effect of comb material
> (e.g., wood vs.
> plastic) on tone, it was easy to find assertions by harmonica
> manufacturers that
> the material of a particular harmonica's comb was important. I
> wouldn't put too
> much stock in what the customer service rep told you, nor even in
> your own
> ears comparing the Promaster and Hammond. A better test would be
> to swap
> the covers onto the same (Promaster or Hammond) harmonica and then
> see if
> the difference can be detected by a dozen or so listeners who can't
> see which
> covers are mounted.
> Regards,
> John Thaden
>
> ====== On 2008-06-23 at 23:16:58, John Potts wrote: =======
>> The effect that painted cover plates have on the tone of a diatonic
>> harmonica is an overlooked topic.
> 8<snip>8
>> [T]his year, I bought a couple of Suzuki Hammonds (which have
>> black painted covers) primarily because I just liked the way they
>> looked. Surprise! The tone was darker, warmer and fatter than the
>> Promasters. I asked Oz Leguizamo at Suzuki customer service about
>> this. Oz told me that the Promasters and the Hammonds are made to
>> identical specifications, but because the Hammonds have painted cover
>> plates, the tone is darker. When I asked Antony Danecker what effect
>> painted cover plates have on tone, he essentially confirmed what Oz
>> had told me.
>> Painted vs, unpainted cover plates is not a topic that had received
>> much attention, but I, for one, have a definite and long standing
>> preference for painted covers. Now I pay more to get Hammonds,
>> just like I used to pay extra to get Pro Harps. There is a subtle,
>> but definite, difference in tone when a harp has painted cover
>> plates. Sometimes, I used to wonder if it was just my imagination.
>> But now, after talking to Oz and Antony, my belief has been
>> validated.
> 8<snip>8
>> JP
>
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
Harp-L mailing list
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http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
End of Harp-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 40
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