Re: [Harp-L] Johnson Laredo to Special 20 and list

[Special20 <special20harp@xxxxxxxxx>]

Walter-

I went back and listened to some Rishell & Raines to refresh my memory of
her great tone.  I'm not sure what her rig is, but it sounds like a
Bassman.  I listened to their cut from Blues Harp Greats, Ol' Heartbreak.
Killer stuff!

You should be able to get a close approximation of that tone with your
Johnson Laredo.  My buddy with the Laredo just killed with some SBW licks
and tone.  But you might have to tinker a bit.

The first step is to make sure you get a tight cup on your mic, like Annie
Raines.  This doesn't mean you need to strangle it in a death grip; just try
to get as complete a seal as possible. The next step is to retube.  I'd
really like to hear what your techie buddy suggests after he plays your amp.

Other things I have done that have helped me get the tone I want:  Using an
EQ pedal between the mic and the amp.  I use the Boss GE-7, so I can contour
the tone a lot more than just the bass/treble controls on most amps.  This
made a huge difference.  This pedal also has an output level control, so you
can boost the signal to your amp a bit if you need to.  Changing
speakers also can make a huge difference.  I prefer low-watt, smooth cone
alnico speakers for harp; very warm and crunchy.  The Weber 10A125-O would
get you a long way toward where you want to be.  But now we are talking some
money...  The pedal and speaker are both about $100.

Disconnecting the negative feedback loop in your tube amp will also give you
a grittier sound.  (I'm not sure the Laredo has a NFB loop, but I do this on
all my vintage amps.)  Also, I prefer delay instead of reverb, so I use a
pedal for that, too.

I have not had good luck playing harp through Ampeg amps.  My first good
harp amp was an Ampeg B15-N flip-top stack.  I just couild not get it to
break up just right.  Same with other Ampegs I have tried.  If it were me,
I'd sell the Vox and the Ampeg and buy a medium sized vintage or specialty
tube amp for harp.  You already have the smallish amp with the Laredo, and
with a little tinkering it should sound nice and crunchy.

BTW, my name is Rick.  I sent a friend request to your myspace site.  I am
not a pro harp player (although I made a living at if a few years ago).  I'm
just a player who loves the tone, and loves tinkering with gear.

Let me know how the Laredo turns out.  Don't give up on it just yet.

-Spec20



On Feb 16, 2008 9:29 AM, Walter Joyce <wtjoyce45@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
> I wish I knew your first name, but Special will have to do.
>
> It's not that the Laredo has a bad sound, its more that I am gong after a
> specific sound. The quality I am looking for was brought home to me the last
> time I saw Annie Raines and Paul Rishell live. That raw edge was there
> consistently and from what I have learned about sound in the last five years
> I believe that it was the sound of tubes being overloaded a bit and breaking
> up.
>
> I had been using a modern Bullet mic, the Shure 520 DX, which has a
> dynamic element. The last time I saw Chicago Bob Nelson I noticed he had a
> Blues Blaster, ceramic element, and both when he played and when he let me
> play through his rig, even through the PA it had more of an edge than the
> bullet, but the bullet seemed to have more of a bottom end to it.
>
> So I bought a Blaster. Luckily the element in it seems to be ok, but I
> will have a more knowledgeable friend check that for me soon.
>
> My primary amp is a 90s reissue Ampeg Reverbrocket, and even though I love
> the tone, it doesn't have that raw edge described above. I tried the
> Bluesblaster through it, and it is a little closer, but still not the same.
>
> I also own a Vox VR30 reverb and the Johnson.  I don't dislike any of
> these amps, but I haven't been able to get that raw edge out of any of them
> yet. For settings on the Ampeg I keep the bass between 8 and 10, the mid
> between 4 and 6 and the treble no higher than 4. I recently switched to
> using the guitar channel on the Ampeg (instead of the accordion) which seems
> to yield a richer tone, and I also tried turning the master volume to 10 on
> the Ampeg and adjusting the mic (Blaster) which surprisingly can also be
> opened all the way without feedback. Still no crunch. I do not use the
> overdrive channel anymore (feedback issues) and reverb between 2 and 4,
> depending on my mood.
>
> My plan is to meet up with a more knowledgeable friend who has a supply of
> tubes and try switching a few of the preamp tubes in the Johnson and the
> Ampeg and see what happens also switching out the mics as well. I am meeting
> up woth him a week from today for that. The Vox is a hybrid, so I don't
> think that we will be able to do much tube switching with that.
>
> Truth is until now I hadn't paid enough attention to the amplified sound I
> want and how different gear affects it, guess its my turn to learn some of
> the technical aspects of that equation and how it works.
>
> Two disclaimers.
>
> As for the myth of switching preamp tubes, I agree that probably goes to
> guitars. The friend I am meeting with next week is both an accomplished
> guitar player and harp player and has been a gear head for years. His
> approach is empirical with a pretty solid technical base to work off of, so
> if switching preamp tubes to affect harp tone was a myth I think he would
> know that.
>
> As for those who may come out of the woodwork and remind me that tone
> starts with the player, I know and agree with that approach. I have an
> acoustic tone that I am happy with, I've been playing a long time and while
> my approach in general is that you can always get better by practicing more
> and knowing your instrument and yourself better, the issue I am trying to
> address is amplified tone that is generally referred to as the Chicago
> sound.
>
> I am also considering selling off my modern circuit board tube amps and
> biting the bullet to either buy real vintage or one of the boutique amps
> available for harp, but that is not an option right now.
>
> Thank you for your input to everyone on the list who has helped since I
> first joined here. There is a wealth of information and knowledge here and a
> generous spirit of sharing that is of great help to all of us who are trying
> to "preserve and advance" harmonica playing, something I try to do in my own
> limited fashion.
>
> Walter Joyce
>
>
>
>
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