Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-l] Re: 7-10/ Now - Harmonica players as sidemen
"David Payne" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> states:
> I don't know what all's going on here, but in the post I read that started
7-10gate ordeal, she specifically said ''beginning" players, not "blues
players"
Not to belabor the subject,,but merely to beat it to death,,
By saying that only "beginning blues players" are unable to finish a song,
and the further comment that the ones who DO finish songs "stand out" from
the rest, a seemingly positive reference, and again referencing in a
positive manner those "taking a song or instrumental from beginning to
end.", there is, to me, the implication that those who CHOOSE, by matter of
preference, to play only supportive comps, chords, rhythms, etc,,rather than
to use the harp as the primary melodic instrument, are in some way less
valuable, or inferior, due to their personal taste.
Personally, I HIGHLY APPRECIATE those "bluesmasters" whose tone and phrasing
first attracted me to the diatonic harp, and STILL DO. I wish I could post
some examples,,,
I just PREFER that sound, that usage of the harp as rhythmic accompaniment
and "tone monster", rather than melodic lead. Sure, I can play amazing
grace, red river valley, cielito lindo, jarave tapatillo (mexican hat
dance), oh susanna, dixie, a sailor's hornpipe, etc,,in single notes or
octaves, and I really don't care to learn much more in the way of melodic
lines beyond that on the diatonic. It certainly entertains the kids, the
grandkids, and makes the local mexican-american community smile when I'm
doing my laundry, and gives me easy stuff to warm up the harp with. It's
really a different flavor, and more challenging when I bust into some 2nd or
other position, but I try not to hit them with that right off the bat.
People walk up to me and tell me that they "could listen to that all day",
and make offers to get me into a recording studio. I'm really not that
interested. I'm more interested in using the harp as accompaniment, adding
something tasty to what a band is already doing. I do visit the local dive,
once in a while, and step in with a band that's gotten accustomed to
trusting my playing sensibilities, http://www.chesterfieldblues.com/ . I've
NEVER gotten anything but praise for my playing except from one person I
used to know, who used to declare how she "hates" harmonica. People
continually suggest, or ask, "are you in a band"? I'm just adverse to
leaving home, going somewhere, carrying things,,etc.. I'm very "comfort
zone-centric". I did play in public recently, while sitting on a bench in
front of the local pie house, and got handed 6.50 for about five minutes of
playing. Somebody gave me 5.00 just to play "happy birthday" for his girl,
at the table inside. (See,,I can play "a song",,)
Anyway,,I have to admit, I think of harmonica as a novelty instrument, with
some recognizably strong points, if used properly, skillfully, etc. My
FAVORITE harp pieces, as I've said, involve the harp as a SUPPORTIVE,
rhythmic and tonally distinctive instrument, not the lead.
Though I've settled on the fact that melodic virtuosity and the ability to
play "any note" on the ten-hole doesn't impress me much, I'm just one
individual. I'd much rather hear depth of tone, and an excellent vibrato
than multitude of note.
BL
I think I'm getting tired of hearing myself ,,,
let's go on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Payne" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Harp L Harp L" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-l] Re: 7-10/ Now - Harmonica players as
sidemen
> I don't know what all's going on here, but in the post I read that started
7-10gate ordeal, she specifically said ''beginning" players, not "blues
players"
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bob Laughlin <rlaughlin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: EGS1217@xxxxxxx; leone@xxxxxxxx
> Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 10:38:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-l] Re: 7-10/ Now - Harmonica players as
sidemen
>
> We really should take this offlist, Liz.
>
> I disagree with the manner in which you relegated "blues players" to a
lower place by inferring that by and large, they couldn't "finish a song",
or seemed "lost" when asked to.
>
> I love you. I just don't love the implications.
>
> I'm not a hater. Not not not.
>
> Just one opinionated man.
>
> BL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EGS1217@xxxxxxx
> To: leone@xxxxxxxx
> Cc: rlaughlin@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 5:55 PM
> Subject: Subject: Re: [Harp-l] Re: 7-10/ Now - Harmonica players as
sidemen
>
>
> Well, thanks for that SmoJoe. Appreciate you realizing I was focusing
more on why some harmonica players may be thought of as 'only sidemen'.
>
> I in no way intended to 'castigate' your take on harmonica playing, Bob,
nor was I remotely 'dragging you to the gallows' for having a difference of
opinion to my own....geez...I thought I'd made it clear enough to you long
before this that I'm a fan of your definitely outre sense of humour? Did
you perhaps miss the 'smileys'?
>
> Have YOU castigated so severely everyone else who takes a differing
point of view to an idea expressed in a post of yours, or was this
especially reserved for me?
>
> ....I sought merely to point out that this might well be a possible
reason why many blues players 'might' be looked upon as 'sidemen' instead of
as lead players, while using a couple of famous 'other style' harmonica
players as good examples of those who seem to function very well indeed in
the harmonica world while playing lead quite satisfactorily.
>
> It isn't something I'm merely guessing about. When a certain young ami
of some of the List members' acquaintance stayed at my home for a few weeks
after SPAH one year, he gave a diatonic class to me and another harmonica
player. At one point while the two much further advanced players were
discussing something well beyond my ability, I kept myself occupied by
quietly playing "Oh Susanna" on the harp I had at hand (basically to see if
it played at all..since I hadn't used it before).
>
> ..(Hey!..does that mean I was 'gussing' them? But then, it was on my
patio, at my table, so does that let me off the hook?) ;)
>
> They both stopped what they were doing and asked me to play it again,
and our mutual ami told me that he 'could not do that'. The other 'student'
(a very good harp-l blues player who didn't really seem to need the lesson
at all) said he couldn't either. And when I reacted with amazement to
something that seemed so basic and simple to me, he explained that it was
because they really do focus more (as blues players) on learning techniques,
methods, riffs and so on...something I know nothing at all about - and
would very much like to learn.
>
> Next to either of them, my playing is 'babe in the woods'...yet neither
could play such an easy and simple song? How could this be?
>
> So while I still feel I'm very much at a disadvantage by not having
grown up learning any chromatic or diatonic techniques, methods, 'riffs' and
very basic playing knowledge just about everyone else seems to know... I do
think players who focus solely on one OR the other, leave themselves at a
distinct disadvantage, and might even contribute to furthering the
impression to other musicians of the idea that a harmonica (any kind) is not
a 'serious' instrument.
>
> And I'm not letting chromatic players off the hook either...a badly
played chromatic is as much an instrument of torture to my ears as is any
other.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:42 AM, EGS1217@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >
> > Perhaps part of the problem is that too many beginning blues harmonica
> > players focus only on learning 'riffs' the way their heroes
> > did...don't want to
> > actually learn to play full songs..or instrumental pieces from
> > beginning to
> > end. If one asks them to actually play a song..they're lost.
> >
> > Elizabeth
> >
> As the professor said of Eliza(beth) Doolittle..... 'I think she's
> GOT it'
>
> smo-joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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