Re: [Harp-L] The Harmonica Comb Experiment

["Vern Smith" <jevern@xxxxxxx>]

If you introduce your discussion with a false or controversial premise ("If 
you would like a natural tone") the rest of the statement is irrelevant. 
Because the writer has made the statement that follows contingent on the 
introductory premise, that premise is not an unimportant detail.   fjm has 
every reason to "pick it out"    The writer could have said "If you would 
like a wooden comb....." and avoided the controversy.

I expect my harp-l posts to be scrutinized.  I often learn something from 
the discussion that follows.  Yerxa and fjm have straightened out some of my 
sloppy thinking. This mechanism is the only thing that keeps the internet 
from becoming a quagmire of baloney.  The knowledge that my statements will 
be scrutinized leads me to research my statements ahead of time and to 
properly qualify my opinions.

IMO, it may not be very warm and fuzzy but the forum would be very bland 
without it.

Vern


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Payne" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Harp L Harp L" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: Fw: [Harp-L] The Harmonica Comb Experiment


From: fjm <bad_hat@xxxxxxxx>
To: h-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:36:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] The Harmonica Comb Experiment

Matthew writes:
> If you would like a natural tone,
> you can buy these combs and switch out your plastic combs for wood.

"Is this to imply that reed plates mounted on a plastic comb produce an
unnatural tone? Really all wooden combs have going for them is an
aesthetic. It happens to be one I personally enjoy but not because it
results in a natural tone. So the Corian tm combs, would they be a
natural or an unnatural tone? fjm"




He's posting about these combs he's making. Is there a response to the fact 
that he's making combs, or ask him how he does it, or what he has in mind, 
or has he considered other woods? Or maybe what his process is to beeswax 
seal a comb without leaving any residue?
No, not at all.
What does happen? One sentence gets picked out, no, wait, buddy, are you 
trying to imply that anything not made of wood is unnatural? Then, he is 
maneuvered into this position where he has to say "Yes, I am wrong" or 
"Randy Sandoval's combs are unnatural-sounding," as when you say Corian 
around here, might as well say Randy. I generally use the word "Awesome" and 
"rule" a lot when talking about Randy's stuff.

Then, regardless of what he says, he's going to be led into this string of 
argument and counterargument about something he wasn't even writing about to 
begin with. That's the pattern. What he meant to imply was "I am making 
combs."
This culture of jumping on people for something they weren't really talking 
about and totally ignoring what they were talking about isn't limited to any 
one person and it makes people not want to post on the board.I know some 
folks who no longer post here for that reason, which is also why I have 
extremely limited the number of posts I post here. I take my lumps when it 
happens to me and I believe I exercised a great deal of control in those 
times, but I hate to see it happen to somebody else, especially some poor 
guy that waltzes in unaware with a smile on his face with something 
interesting to offer.

Me, I would like for Matthew to elaborate on his methods, if he would be so 
kind, for advancement of whatever ideas he has and I as well as others might 
learn something. I've tried several methods of beeswax (disclaimer, you can 
get burned badly easily). I never had a problem with waxy residue, although 
over time, they'd pick up dirt. In retrospect, I think that had I polished 
the wood surfaces better, I wouldn't have had even that.

> From what I read, it looks like everything was chosen to be the least 
possible toxic and I got the impression maple was chosen for that reason. 
The thing about maple is, at least in my experience with comb making, is 
that maple has to be flatter, which apparently Matt's seem to be, as they 
were described. Some woods will slightly contour to deformities in the 
reedplate, that's a big reason I was such a fan of mahogany.

One thing I found with the harder woods - and this does not really apply to 
10-hole harps because they are so short - when I was making combs for the 
Hohner 364 and especially the 365, that you can have trouble with warping 
down the road. Two examples I was using - black walnut and mahogany - the 
black walnut, should it develop a warp, would pull the entire harmonica and 
warp the whole harmonica. In other words, it would pull the reedplates to 
conform to the warp. I found the opposite with the softer mahogany, the wood 
is reigned in by the reedplates and it all stays true, even if a warp 
develops.
That was something I noticed in the old days, I don't think I was even 
sealing the wood back then, so consider that as you consider.

The best way I found to make a wood comb for a specific harp was to make the 
comb bigger than it needed to be, thus extra wood sticking out on all sides, 
including the teeth, then sanding everything flush. I made some lovely harps 
with my own combs that way.
Oddily enough, I have zero of those old combs, or harps with those combs 
left. I gave them all away (that was before I sold stuff). I was pleased to 
see one a while back, my dad has it. It was a prewar Old Standby I had made 
a mahogany comb for and given to dad.

Now, I don't know about any toxicity of mahogany. Back then, I didn't care, 
I was just making harps for me.

By the way, the way I figured out to seal with beeswax without leaving 
residue was heating the wood to about 250 degrees, then rubbing warm, but 
solid beeswax on it. It was actually a bit safer, I've been burned by hot 
beeswax a time or two. Yes, I did warp a comb or two by heating the wood.

One thing that caught my eye about Matthew's post was he mentioned they were 
tight because they were precisely made. He's probably aware of this, and I 
mention it for general knowledge, the key to a responsive comb is flatness 
where it meets the reedplates. With unsealed combs, it's not that vital, 
because the wood swells tightly against the reedplate, that's why they used 
to talk of the break-in period to make the harp tight and playable. Problem 
is, though, they swell too much.

One thing that will affect swell is how the grain runs. I think somebody 
experimented with some of those things, they could make a unsealed comb that 
would not overly swell and maple would be a good wood to start with. From 
the late 1800s to the early 1900s, a lot of companies were looking at ways 
to make an unsealed comb that would not swell. Hohner came up with the idea 
of a metal strip, which I think that wasused in the Orchester, that kept 
moisture away, Seydel, on the other hand, tried sealing the outer surfaces, 
because that's where most of the moisture is absorbed, on the top of the 
comb tooth. There's quite a few patents where this swelling problem was 
addressed. Me, I'll probably keep using butcher's block oil and other 
sealants used on food surfaces, salad bowl finish is another, but there is 
plenty of room for experimentation here.



Dave


_________________________________
Dave Payne Sr.
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com