Re: [Harp-L] 5th positon

["PT Gazell" <ptgazell@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I also like 5th position, and as most of you know I play valved diatonic. The combination of 5th and valving really makes minor key playing on richter tuned diatonics a real joy. Examples of 5th position playing can be heard on my new CD "Back To Back" which is a duet project I recorded with Brendan Power. "Till Tom Special" and the title track "Back To Back" are both done in 5th. In response to offlist inquiries, "Windy and Warm" is done in 4th position by playing a low Eb in Cm.

Thanks,

PT Gazell
pt@xxxxxxxxxxxx
www.ptgazell.com
www.myspace.com/ptgazell
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rick Dempster 
  To: John F. Potts ; mfugazzi67@xxxxxxxxx 
  Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 7:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Harp-L] 5th positon


  I use 5th quite a bit too, and yes, it's perfect if the IV chord is minor. I think, John, if you listen to most pieces where 3rd is used, the IV chord IS major, which  corresponds with the Dorian mode (which is what you are using if you are playing the 'natural' third position (ie no overblows etc.)
  I use fourth occasionally, but if I want an 'open' I chord, it can be awkward because your root in the bass is a bent note (hole 3 down a tone)
  I find 5th particularly powerful used with a tongue block.
  RD

  >>> "John F. Potts" <hvyj@xxxxxxx> 29/08/2008 9:42 >>>
  Mike ,
  I use 5th position regularly for minor keys.  I can perform all  
  sorts of material in 5th that I could never handle in other  
  positions. I use it so often that I  absolutely must carry my Aflat  
  diatonic all the time so i have it on hand to use for C minor.  Eflat  
  for G minor.  F for A minor, etc.  
  As you probably know, in order to determine which harp to use in 5th  
  position, you take the relative major of the minor key you wish to  
  play and use the harp you would ordinarily use to play 2d position in  
  that key.  For example, if you want to play in C minor, the relative  
  major is Eflat, so you use an Aflat harp (the one you would use to  
  play in Eflat major 2d position). Then  use 2 blow for root and you  
  get C minor, without having to bend for the minor 3rd or the minor  
  6th (which is the minor 3rd on the IV chord).
  You can use the whole harp and play the minor blues scale top to  
  bottom in all 3 registers. Bending the 3 draw is necessary to get the  
  flat 5th and the 4th. Also, there are a couple of avoid notes in the  
  upper 2 registers. But otherwise, it's a lot like 2d position in that  
  it's hard to hit a really bad note. The technique and breath patterns  
  are also similar to 2d position.
  I think 5th position is better for most minor key material than 3d  
  position, because in 3rd position, you must bend to get the minor 6th  
  which is the third note of the IV chord... and if the IV chord is  
  minor (as it is in most, but not all, minor tunes) you don't fool  
  anyone if you don't flat the 6th. I never understood why most  
  instructional materials recommend 3d position for minor keys instead  
  of 5th.  There's not much recorded material in 5th position, though.   
  But playing in 5th allows the player to fit harp parts to all sorts  
  of  tunes that don't have harp on the original and which most harp  
  players would not be able to handle on a diatonic. Overblows (which I  
  have not learned to do) are not necessarily required.
  Of course, you can play minor in 4th position without having to  
  bend, but I consider 4th to be a straight harp position because you  
  are playing the harp in the relative minor of the key of the harp.   
  For example you use a  C harp for A minor. But A minor is the same  
  key (same notes) as C major.  You just start on a different note.  So  
  you are actually playing the instrument in the key it is in.  I am  
  able to play 4th, but never use it unless I want to play "All Along  
  the Watchtower"  which was originally recorded by Dylan using 4th  
  position and may sound better in 4th instead of 5th. But 4th is like  
  playing in 1st.  And i don't  usually enjoy playing in 1st, although  
  i can do it when i have to.  But if you like 4th you should love 5th!
  JP 
    
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