Re: [Harp-L] Fatigue and reed life

[Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>]

On Apr 17, 2008, at 9:27 PM, David Payne wrote:

> The Steel appears to me as virtually identical to brass reeds in  
> thickness.

Ok, but how fine is the milling. Is it about 250 lines an inch (like  
Hohner) or 175 (like Hering)

> Maybe somebody can take a measurement and see. They seem the same  
> to me. Eventually, the stainless reed might have a different  
> profile altogether, remember this is all pretty new.

OR, the surface may be smoother.
> I know what you are saying, they need to be thinner to vibrate  
> properly with human breath. This would especially be noticeable on  
> short-slot harmonicas... it would seem they would have to be  
> thinner to work, Seydel took another approach to that, there simply  
> is no short slot 1847.

Yes, THAT is what 'I' would do.

> 1847 Ds, Es, Fs, are all long-slot harmonicas. That's especially  
> nice on the D, cause it's the key that goes out on most guys,  
> simply cause it's short slot, yet it gets as much playing pressure  
> as the C...

Yes, I find the D to be my easiest key to play. They bend best (for me).
> I don't think the steel makes any huge difference, really, in  
> playability.. There were so many other changes Seydel made with  
> this harp, better cut reedslots, open back, thick covers, that make  
> the harp play like it does.. That reedslot cut was a HUGE  
> difference, huge. It's much closer to the reed.

There is also a difference in brass & steel. With stainless, you are  
dealing with several metals that have similar melting points. That  
way, you only have to achieve the highest metal's melting point to do  
the alloy. You don't get too much gassification.  With brass, the  
copper has a higher melting point than the zinc and you have to bring  
the temp up so high that before the copper is ready to alloy, the  
zinc is already 'watery'. Some gassification takes place in the zinc  
and so you have to allow for it by figuring more zinc than you  
actually need. Getting an even mix this way is tricky.

As our buddy said yesterday, you could use other more exotic metals  
but the price would put them out of reach, and that is  
understandable. But I think this whole thread began with someone  
asking "Why not make our own reed making machinery"? Yes, If we DID  
make our own reeds, cost wouldn't be a factor. Factors would be  
availability and time.
> Karl Pucholt is the big man behind the 1847. He could have made a  
> stainless steel harp maybe back in the 1970s or 1980s if Seydel  
> hadn't been government controlled under the East German Communist  
> Government Overlords. Karl is the former DDR's version of SmoJoe.  
> So Karl's been thinking about this, planning this in that Einstein  
> of harps brain of his for 30 or 40 years, so in 2004, when Niamia  
> media buys out Seydel, within like hours before it was closing  
> forever, Seydel did't have a pit to poss in, but Karl had this  
> steel reed harp in his back pocket ready for some serious development.

I started into my foray with steel reeds back when my mother's  
favorite music box broke. The reeds are all cut out of ONE piece of  
steel. I couldn't figure out how to repair it.  I found that I could  
order the reed plate from a toy company. But for my harmonica, I used  
a Gillette super blue razor blade. As long as you kept the reed edges  
'Criscoed', they wouldn't rust. Then I used a Schick copper clad  
blade. Finally a Wilkinson Sword stainless. They are too much work.  
ALL razor blades are too much work (for working by hand)
> I'm still playing mostly brass reeds. I can fix my own stuff,  
> emboss my own plates, etc. If I emboss an 1847 reedplate, it will  
> play about like the brass reedplate I'd embossed, the main thing  
> the 1847 has going for it at that point are those thick, awesome  
> coverplates.. But stock, the 1847 is much better and has a longer  
> life. I've not had a customer blow one out yet that I know of, but  
> they've gone through a few brass harps in that time.
>
> Eventually, the 1847 reeds will fatigue, but the wait for fatigue  
> is a heckuva lot longer than for brass.

I might have to try these harps.
smokey-joe
> Dave
> ___________________________
> Dave Payne Sr
> Elk RIver Harmonicas
> www.elkriverharmonicas.com