[Harp-L] re: Popper-esque phenomenon /reply to Elizabeth´s post

[martin oldsberg <martinoldsberg@xxxxxxxxx>]

Elizabeth´s comment is of a kind that is probably inevitable, but nevertheless out of place. Harp-l is a discussion/debating/information forum for things related to harmonica. That, I take it, is a rather uncontroversial understanding of the purpose of this list.
      As for the fairness in commenting on someone else´s artistic effort, it´s like this: in art, good or bad, high or low ? be it harmonica playing, square dancing, writing of novels or painting your masterpiece ? you expose yourself to criticism the minute you get public. That goes with the territory. (You tube is a public forum.)   
    This is a good thing, and in no way parasitic on the institution of art itself ? sometimes hinted at by those sceptical of the practice of criticism -- but essential to it. If you cannot handle criticism, two options: 1) avoid parttaking of any comments about your artistic effort, don´t read papers etc, or 2) don´t publish, paint, or play in the public sphere.  Critical comments, on, say, harp-l, is not about ?teaching? the player anything -- that´s another activity, relating to pedagogy ? but discussing/debating the merits of a player who has put himself in a public forum (the guy in question had something like 14 videos up on You tube, clearly a confident young man, eager to show his skills) ? can sometimes make you see things you´d otherwise have missed. ?Illogical? or not ? whatever logic´s got to do with it? -- this must be absolutely valid on harp-l and the simple reason for not posting on You tube was that it was brought up here, on harp-l.     
      
    Elizabeth also seems to imply that in order to criticise somebody you must be able to do it better yourself, which is sending any debate about art back to a Neanderthal level and not worthy of further comment. That also goes for the notion that we were ?gossiping behind his back? when we expressed some views about this guys playing.   
      
    Of course, with criticism often comes the problem of stupid/ignorant critics; and criticism degenerating into character assassination: we see a bit of that on the list and it´s an inherent risk. However there´s a surprisingly small amount of negative criticism on this list, and about the only one who´s fair game seems to be John Popper (an inventive and successful harmonica player, with some weak points and whose music I personally happen to dislike) and I for one would like to see more attempts at analyzing other players within a polite framework. Maybe Elizabeth thinks our obligation on harp-l is to love and adore every one who´s ever blown a single crappy note on a harp, and it may be that this is shared by a large number om members, but hopefully that is a passed phase. The idea sometimes put forward, though not by Elizabeth, that we are a sort of ?community? is probably only detrimental to the development of the harmonica as a recognized instrument.  
    As for character assassination that´s certainly a more prevalent but less interesting feature of the list. Quite a lot iof that nature has lately been directed towards this guy Larry (don´t recall last name, E- or I- something), and none of it very enlightening from a harmonica perspective. Elizabeth, if I recall correctly, has been rather diligent in this and perhaps it´s her idea of a more suitable activity for harp-l, but it ain´t mine and hopefully not the majority´s and listowner´s.  (I don´t know Larry at all, have never heard him play a note etc, have no opinion whatsoever of him except that I say hats off to Larry for not blowing his top on-list. I would not have been as tranquil.)  
    Elizabeths post are frequent, and generally of a rather chummy character (apart from her disaffection with Larry), writing stuff to your pen pals, remembering good times had and good times to come, and of course there´s plenty of room for that on the list, apparently; but to react when a few comments were made, none of them aggressively, of a nature more pertaining to what could reasonably be described as the core activity of harp-l, strikes me as odd. But make it easy on yourself and try not to read posts of that kind in the future, is my advice: as a very infrequent poster but steady reader over the years I have realised the importance both of skipping posts, from some members, as well as entire themes that don´t concern me. 
     
     And of course, finally, I am now ?rock police? for expressing a wish that ?Stairway? should be put to rest for a while. Well, I may have phrased it a bit harshly, but I won´t back down, no I won´t back down from my WHISH that ?Stairway to heaven? ? a tired song that is played by sub-standard performers right at this very moment in a plethora of pubs and cafés all over the world ? ought to be put in the refrigerator for some time, in good company with a number of other songs that I won´t name. However, ?two generations? was perhaps too hard: I´m 50 now, and we Swedes are a sturdy lot, but say that around 2030 I´ll probably be playing harp in the elysian fields, and wouldn´t that be a great time to re-introduce this piece of schlock to the world, if I may so WISH? 
    
  Sorry about the long post and weird English,
    Martin 
   
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
   
  Message: 8
  Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:24:37 EDT
  From: EGS1217@xxxxxxx
  Subject: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Popper-esque phenom
  To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
  Cc: martinoldsberg@xxxxxxxxx, drfertig@xxxxxxxxx
  Message-ID: <cf8.17c53556.3412f165@xxxxxxx>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
   
  For what it's worth...when someone posts a YouTube video here...and
   then  
  others join in to make comments (especially negative ones) about and
    or directly 
  TO the person playing IN those videos...it's completely  illogical  and
   
  serves no real purpose if your intent is to "teach" the  player just
   what he is 
  doing 'wrong' (in your professional estimation, that  is)...since he
   isn't 
  reading your comments.
   
  The player in question isn't a member of Harp-L as far as anyone can  
  determine...he put his videos  on YouTube, not harp-l, and there is a
    place ON 
  YouTube right there under each video for comment.   While I  still
   don't understand 
  (and no one so far has satisfactorily been able to  explain to me) the 
  seeming necessity in the harmonica community of 'some'  harmonica
   players (out of 
  all other musicians) feeling the need to criticize  other harmonica
   players, 
  dissecting their videos negatively seems  especially egregious (in my
   humble 
  opinion).  Did this young guy ask for  your criticisms here?
   
  As a matter of fact, one can not only post comments on YouTube, but
   even  
  post VIDEO comments ..i.e. your own videos...perhaps to counteract
   his...show  
  him just how it's done ... (somewhat akin to: putting your money where
   your  
  mouth is?)  ;)  How about it?  All those who make a negative
    comment...put your 
  OWN video up as proof whereof you speak? I would most  definitely be 
  interested in seeing those!  I'm sure I'd learn an awful lot  from the
   comparisons of 
  "right way vs. wrong way", since I'm a  newbie diatonic player and need
   to know 
  these important  distinctions. 
   
  Posting your dissection of his playing here strikes me as a  bit
   unfair, 
  since it smacks somewhat of gossiping behind  someone's back...while
   the gossipee 
  isn't aware he/she is being talked about so  negatively.  Whereas
   putting your 
  comments right there on his site will at  the very least allow him a
   counter 
  response and serve to carry the  courage of your convictions,
   n'est-ce-pas?
   
  Elizabeth
   
  P.S.  His specifically described "jazz" version of Stairway to  Heaven
   (on 
  diatonic, no less)..seemed quite different and unusual enough to give
    a 
  listen..and actually triggered an interest in me to try it on
   Chromatic...but  in no 
  way made me feel the song should be "left alone".   Why?  Who decides
   when and 
  for how long a song should or should  not be played?  NOW we have "Rock
   song 
  police"? Geez.






       
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