Re: [Harp-L] Superstars in pop/rock music

[Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>]

On May 26, 2007, at 9:58 PM, Tim Moyer wrote:

> Joe Leone wrote:
> > I don't see how playing with someone WHO has played
> > with someone computes? A sit in player who sits in
> > with a sit in player makes neither of them stars.
>
> Just to clarify, Chris said that he had played with "people who work
> with some of the superstars in pop/rock music", and I was attempting
> to give some substantiation to the claim.

Yeah, I know. And I applaud you for that. You're a stand up guy.

>   I happen to be a HUGE Tony Levin fan from his groundbreaking work  
> with Robert Fripp,
> Adrian Belew and Bill Bruford in King Crimson in the early 80s, and
> I resent the label of "sit in player" being attached to him.

Does this mean you're upset with me?
 No, seriously, if a person is not attached to a band and they are a  
studio musician, they are (possibly) a sit in player? Isn't Steevie  
Wonder a sit in player? He has sat in on more other people's stuff  
than his own. Wouldn't Tommy Morgan, who has sat in on tons of movie  
scores, basically a sit in player? I don't see it as a point of  
disrespect. Perhaps there is a better word to use? If so, please  
advise as I am not the most diplomatic person with words but I'm  
willing to learn.

>   I know Joe Leone, and I generally respect him and his opinions,  
> but I take
> issue with this.  Just because you aren't familiar with someone's
> work doesn't mean you can treat it dismissively.

Oh, I'm not. Not at all. I should be so lucky as to have any where  
near the Tony fellow's accomplishments. A person becomes a sit in  
player (my opinion only) for numerous reasons. The unwillingness to  
travel or be on the road. The necessity to stay in one's own environs  
because of family. The security of having a steady income OR benefits  
(medical, pension). Advancing age. Diminishing energy. Some of the  
best musicians I have ever met were basically sit in players.

Most musicians are already working for someone else in the first  
place. A sit in player works on a project that is attached to someone  
else other than him/her self. That's all I meant. The fact that they  
ARE getting compensated and ARE making a living and ARE contributing  
to these projects says volumes. But two musicians who are NOT working  
on their OWN stardom/ name recognition/ careers, aren't making each  
other stars either. They are musicians, plain & simple. Maybe I'm  
over simplifying things, but you're either known or you're not.

I don't know the Tony guy and I'm so sure he is astounding merely by  
checking his credentials, but frankly, I'm not that aware of him. He  
has been working on so many OTHER people's stuff, that somehow he  
slipped past my radar.
It doesn't matter, I wasn't 'dissing' him.

>   I never said playing with Tony Levin made anyone a superstar, or  
> was anything
> more than a great story to tell a bunch of harmonica players  
> clustered around a virtual water cooler.

And, I was merely trying to convey that a (relatively unknown)  
musician who happens to play with an ESTABLISHED musician doesn't  
necessarily make the relatively unknown musician suddenly climb up  
the food chain by association, osmosis, or proxy. To me (my opinion)  
it amounts to 2 musicians playing.
> > As for the list, there are literally thousands of people
> > who have worked with these people, and the general
> > situation is that they worked FOR them, not WITH them.
>
> People don't hire Tony Levin to work for them, people seek out Tony
> Levin to get his interpretation of the music they are performing.

Ok, I wasn't aware of that. I have just been educated. However, I  
also can't read minds and have absolutely no idea of where these many  
'stars' mindsets are. Of course I will acquiesce ( only due to lack  
of personal knowledge) that Tony has got his sh*t together. Knowing  
you, I am convinced that you are a purveyor of 'good skinny'. So I  
accept your stand.
> Sure, some of this is no doubt session work, but in many cases
> Tony's stylings add to an overall sound that would be diminished
> without his contribution.  The opening "stick" phrase on King
> Crimson's "Elephant Talk" still rings in my ears: "Talk Talk Talk
> it's only talk..."

Ok
> As for people who singled out the "only superstars" on the list, I
> think there is no doubt that there is a "superstar" on that list for
> just about everyone, be it Liza Minelli or Pink Floyd or John Lennon
> or Etta James.  Most any of us would kill for a discography like
> that.  So go ahead and decide which ones are worthy in your world.

It's not a matter of worthy. I don't matter. But as long as we're  
slicing peaches here, Ringo wouldn't BE Ringo if it hadn't been for  
his association with the Beatles. He would have never made it. It's  
not that I don't like him. He just doesn't have talent. Lou Reed? I'm  
entitled to an opinion, right? I don't see how he manages to feed  
himself.

See, it's all a matter of personal taste. That list is like any other  
list. Open to preference(s).

Jo-Jo
> -tim
>
>
>
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