Re: [Harp-L] plagarism

Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx> · Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:37:12 -0400

On Jun 30, 2007, at 3:55 AM, Joe and Cass Leone wrote:

On Jun 30, 2007, at 3:10 AM, Ken Deifik wrote:
Early in my Nashville tenure I played at a small gathering of  
musicians, one of whom was a well-known harp player, not Charlie  
McCoy.  A guy who had some choice accounts, but was an inferior  
musician who, let's say, went to the right church.  I chatted with  
the guy for a while, but he sounded ridiculous playing after I  
did, so the guy who brought him there finally told him he might  
just shut up and listen.
A few weeks later I heard some of my licks on a record, played by  
this guy.

First of all, while I agree with Mr. Weiser in spirit, It occurs to  
me that a person can get carried away with this plagarism and copy  
right business. For one thing, I (personally) feel that ANYONE who  
can do another persons solo note for note would have to be better  
technically than the person who DID said solo. Why do I feel this  
way? Let me count the ways.
1... There is a word in the pool/billiards game called 'ass'. This  
covers situations where a player seems to be making nearly impossible  
shots incongruous to his actual skill level. While it doesn't take  
into consideration that the player has been shooting for much years  
and FINALLY one night everything is clicking, it assumes that the  
player is 'Assing IN' his shots. It sort of means the same as luck.  
DUMB luck.
2... I (personally) feel that these players who originated these  
licks, were doing an arrangement. Their OWN arrangement, so to speak.  
As such, I don't see how you can copy right this as everyone is  
entitled to play these notes AND the combinations are YOUR prerogative.
3... What I believe happened is that these Sonny Boys and Walters  
were NOT playing from a chart and were (for lack of a better term)  
'Assing IN' these riffs and runs. Just off the tops of their heads  
(or mouths). That's it, plain & simple. There was no space cadet  
rocket surgery to this. These guys LIVED harp. They WERE harp.
Ergo, the originators don't have a right to these note combinations  
and therefore they don't have the right to 'NON copy'  (or copy  
right). Me? I wouldn't do it. He!!, let's be real; here..I COULDN't  
do it. That kind of thing takes real commitment.

I wish I could have sued that guy, but that ain't the way it works.

I can dig it. 9/25/59 I came up with what I thought was a NEW tuning.  
Until the mid-late 70s I don't believe I ever heard any one else  
using that tuning. In the mid-late 70s just before the Ryman shut  
it's doors I played on their last Christmas party. I was the guest of  
Ernest Tubb for ONE tune. Frosty the Snowman. I Played it in the Don  
Les style (I was told)
A.. Another harmonica player named Jim Rydell or Raydell or something  
was very interested in my playing without switching harps on the  
bridge. I explained my tuning. I suppose the word got around after  
that. I don't care.

B.. I never knew who Don Les was till 1991 when I met him at Buckeye  
or SPAH. Sooo, my style was my OWN, and not a copy of anyone else's.  
So what looked like a copy cat act..wasn't. I don't care.

Until recently you could not copyright an arrangement, and it's  
certain that most harp solos recorded in the, say, 1950's were not  
copyrighted.  The recordings were copyrighted, but you could copy  
the record exactly in the studio and put it out all over again if  
you could find a way to make it pay, which was not easy, as you  
could obviously not say it was an Elvis Presley record if he  
didn't actually sing it.

Copy righting an arrangement is another catch 22. You would have to  
play YOUR arrangement note for note each and every time out. If you  
changed a few notes here or there, you may be doing someone ELSE's  
copyrighted arrangement. See how ridiculous all this gets.
Yesterday Mick Zaklan submitted an URL of Damien Masterson soloing on  
one of my favorite tunes 'Little Sunflower'.

I happen to do the solo fairly close to what Freddy Hubbard (himself)  
did. Since Fred IS the composer and trumpet player on this tune, I  
figured he knew the tune better than anyone and who am I to mess with  
a good thing. Sooo, the question is..If I do the same solo but use a  
chromo INSTEAD of a trumpet, is that plagerizing?. Jeez, I don't  
know. It all gives me a headache. I thought this was supposed to be fun.
When I do 'Sidewinder' I try to be close to the Lee Morgan trumpet  
solo. I thought everyone did this. I thought everyone tried to be at  
least true enough to the tune that people would recognize it. Some  
people go so far out into space, they loose the tune and can't redock  
the shuttle. And THAT sucks. I always try to do a tune as close to  
the person who made it famous would do it. Then on the improv  
portion, that's a zebra of different stripes.
BTW: on the above mentioned tune, Damien dropped in a few bars of  
'Mona Lisa' into the solo. Is THAT legal?
smokey-joe's opinion

But it DID pay.  There was a farily healthy soundalike recording  
business in Nashville back then.  Scotty Moore had a business  
doing it.  I worked for him a few times.  Most of the time he  
could get the exact same cats who had played on the original to  
come in and do the soundalike.  I never got called to soundalike  
Charlie McCoy, as the real guy was available.  The stuff I worked  
on had harp that was played by some studio guitarist or other who  
did a second on harp, badly.  It's harder to soundalike those guys  
than it would have been to do it to McCoy, though not by much.   
(Those records sold for way cheap at truck stops.)
None of this is exactly similar to a guy who drops a famous solo  
of someone else's into a different tune.
I'm embarrassed for anyone who would do that.
K
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