Re: [Harp-L] Searching for Half-Valved Players - location of overbent notes

[Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>]

Phil - 

The problem with your overblow logic - that you overblow C to get Eb -
is that it's based on a faulty premise. An overblow does not make a
blow reed jump some inconsistent distance. The blow reed has nothnig to
do with it. You overblow a draw reed to get a note one semitone higher:

Hole 1:  You overblow D to get Eb. 

Hole 2:  You overblow G to get Ab. 

Hole 3:  You overblow B to get C. 

Hole 4:  You overblow D to get Eb. 

Hole 5:  You overblow F to get Gb. 

Hole 6:  You overblow A to get Bb.

Hole 7:  You overdraw C to get Db.

Hole 8:  You overdraw E to get F.

Hole 9:  You overdraw G to get Ab

Hole 10: You overdraw C to get Db

All overblows are consistently a semitone above the reed of the
opposite breath.

An overblow is always a semitone above the draw reed that produces it. 

An overdraw is always a semitone above the blow reed that produces it.

Admittedly that is less direct that bending Blow E down to Eb. But the
logic of finding overbent notes is perfectly consistent and easy to
grasp.

Winslow

--- Philharpn@xxxxxxx wrote:

> One of the things that most appeals to me about half valved harps --
> I prefer 
> Suzuki's ProMaster
> MR350-V -- is the "logical" relationship of the blow bend to the
> unbent note, 
> compared to overblows.
> 
> I like the idea that if I want to create a B on the C harp I merely
> blow bend 
> the 1 Blow. If I want to get an Eb, I blow bend the E (Blow 2).  
> Obviously, 
> I am not looking at the harp before I sound the note. I am using my
> "mind's 
> eye" as reference.
> 
> It's helpful to know that when you blow bend on the notes that you
> will get a 
> note a half-step lower -- not a minor third raised (maybe).
> 
> With overblows, even if I could execute them on a more or less
> regular basis 
> (which I can't) I have trouble keeping track of where they are. To
> get that Eb 
> via overblow, you overblow C (Blow 1) and Blow 4 but overblow Blow 7
> (C) you 
> get Db.   
> 
> (Obviously, if you play overblows, you already "know" where   the
> overblows 
> logically belong and probably don't need any valved bends.)
> 
> As far as hitting valved blow bends on pitch, you can pick up a good
> quality 
> chromatic tuner from $20-50 and a good electronic keyboard for about
> $100 or 
> less -- to help on hitting those bends spot on.   Bends have always
> been 
> tricky. Anybody can bend a note; it takes a little extra effort to
> play them in 
> tune.
> 
> And if you don't want to waste your money on getting some of the
> traditional 
> draw bends in tune, simply play the scale on the first 4 holes of any
> diatonic 
> so that it sounds like the scale on holes 4-7. You need to create the
> F and A 
> notes. Failing that, pick up the telephone and listen to the dial
> tone. It's 
> an F and use that for a reference point for the bent F.
> 
> I think the half-valved diatonic is one of the great underutilized
> harps 
> around -- whether you buy a Suzuki valved and play it out of the box
> (like I try) 
> or build you own with mylar, scotch tape or medical tape et cetera.
> 
> The best part is that you don't have to change what you already know,
> you 
> just add a few bent notes where they "logically" belong.   
> 
> Phil Lloyd
> 
> 
> In a message dated 6/13/07 6:17:56 AM, bren@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> 
> 
> > --- Larry Marks < <mailto:larry.marks%40barberry.com>
> > larry.marks@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Fellow harmonica types,
> > >I just recently heard of both SPAH and this list. I have been
> lurking
> > > for a while and searching the archives, but have found little on
> > > (half-) valved diatonics, which I like to play. I am hoping to
> find
> > others
> > > who are similarly inclined.
> > 
> > Good to hear of players taking the half-valved harmonica seriously.
> I'm
> > a long-term acolyte: I started half-valving my diatonics in the mid
> > 80's, and soon after did the same with chromatics; all my
> recordings are
> > on half-valved harps, diatonics and chromatics. Suzuki's ProMaster
> > MR350-V, the first commercial half-valved diatonic, was a result of
> my
> > suggesting the idea to Suzuki.
> > 
> > After getting used to the beautiful expressiveness of the
> half-valved
> > diatonic, it is very hard to go back to playing an un-valved harp.
> The
> > lower 7 blow notes and upper 4 draws can be given vibrato and
> bending
> > effects, which I really miss on an un-valved harp. However, using a
> > half-valved diatonic for fully chromatic playing is another kettle
> of
> > fish. On a diatonic, I use half-valving for expression, not
> > chromaticism. Getting the bend down to pitch is not too bad, but
> hitting
> > a valved bend in tune, stable and sounding nice is very hard, and
> for me
> > the results are too nasty to be practically usable. Knowing how
> hard it
> > is, I appreciate the efforts of those who try this route -
> especially PT
> > Gazell. It would be interesting to hear your experiences of using
> valved
> > bends, PT.
> > 
> > However, I feel there is a better way to go: the half-valved
> chromatic.
> > Chromatics need to be intrinsically very airtight and preferably in
> > alternate tunings (where every blow and draw reed is at least a
> tone
> > apart) to really suit half-valving. But when it's set up right, in
> my
> > opinion the half-valved chromatic is the best all-round harp in
> terms of
> > combining expressiveness and real usable chromaticism.
> > 
> > Even on a Solo-tuned chromatic you can half-valve every
> odd-numbered
> > hole (1,3,5,7,9,11) to get semitone draw bends, though it's best to
> > leave draw valves on holes 4 and 8, and on hole 2 and perhaps 6.
> For
> > those familiar with Richter tuning, Hohner's half-valved Slide Harp
> is
> > available, though it is sadly not nearly as airtight as it should
> be.
> > With customisation it works a lot better, and better half-valved
> Richter
> > chroms can be made using the larger holes of the cross-style
> slider.
> > Diminished and Whole-Tone tuning are great on half-valved
> chromatic, as
> > you get a lot of enharmonics using slide or bent notes, and you can
> > think up an infinite range of other tunings that would also suit.
> > 
> > Though I love the half-valved chromatic, there are very few serious
> > players. Apart from the fact there is no good off-the-shelf
> half-valved
> > chrom available, there are two reasons, I think: Traditional
> chromatic
> > players are used to the sound of valves on all holes (many of the
> old
> > school wouldn't want to bend notes anyway), and Howard Levy's
> pioneering
> > work on overblow diatonic has given diatonic players a way to
> achieve
> > chromaticism whilst retaining the traditional unvalved diatonic.
> > 
> > Both instruments and approaches have their strengths and appeal,
> and I
> > love hearing great players using either approach, but to me the
> > half-valved chromatic gives the best of both worlds: all chromatic
> notes
> > easy to obtain and in tune, as well as diatonic-type bending on
> half the
> > notes, giving many enharmonics (and therefore alternate phrasing
> > options), and lots of expression.
> > 
> > Brendan
> > WEB: http://www.brendan-power.com <http://www.brendan-power.com/> 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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