Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Horns Sounds Like Harp Sounds Like Horns

"sorry for the rant.........smokey-joe"
...That was a rant?  Not in my book.  In my book it was a fun,  well written, 
thought-provoking, different slant on where our musical and other 
"input" comes from.  
Very cool....ties in with my idea that our brains are simply computers and  
the older we get the more information has been stuffed into  it might 
take just a wee bit longer to access certain files ;)
To Revolt is a natural tendency of life.  Even a  worm turns against the foot 
that crushes it. In general, the vitality and  relative dignity of an animal 
can be measured by the intensity of its instinct  to revolt. 
 Mikhail Bakunin  
"Message: 12
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 00:32:11 -0400
From: Joe and Cass  Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Horns Sounds Like Harp  Sounds Like Horns 
To: James _wasabileo@xxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:wasabileo@xxxxxxxxxx)  

On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:37 AM, James wrote:

> Regarding this  discussion two names come to mind: Cootie Williams  
> and Jed  Davenport
> Cootie Williams, as many of you know, played with the  Ellington  
> Orchestra. He has these mutes and stuff like the  "plumber's helper"  
> and stuff and he could play the most  incredible "rural sounds" in a  
> most sophisticated way. I always  believed he listened to harp players.

It's possible. I have heard that  Clyde McCoy listened to harp  
players. A lot of his slurs are not what  you would normally expect on  

> Jed Davenport was  both a jug band harp player and a pit musician  
> (trumpet) He  played in high keys (E) and he played some cool lines

High keys seem to  be something that came along after 1952 (Maynard  
Ferguson, Shorty  Rogers, Chet Baker).

> I always wondered what came first? The trumpet  lines or the harp  
> lines. Were the trumpet players listening to  the harp players or  
> the reverse or both at the same  time.

I feel that everyone was listening to everyone. That would be  the  
smart thing to do, and since I'm not that smart and 'I' came up  with  
it, someone else HAD to beat me to it. The geographical reference  the  
other day got me interested too. It was postulated that people  from  
various areas might be influenced by musics and musicians from  that  
area. Like was a particular harp player from Louisiana that  much  
different from the majority of the players (who happened to be  from  

I (reverently) have to cast that aside.  Because if I were to stand in  
Bossier City Louisiana, I don't really  think I could tell I wasn't in  
Tyler Texas. Or, if I were standing on  the west bank of the  
Mississippi in Talulah Louisiana, I don't think I  could distinguish  
it from the east side in Vicksburg  Mississippi.

I always thought it would be fun to take 10 trumpet players  from  
Texas. Now everyone knows that Texas doesn't have a majority  of  
native Texans any more. The population explosion ( witnessed by  the  
steep hike in electoral votes), is primarily due to transplants.  Now  
lets say that 3 of these Texans are Mexican and playing in  the  
Mariachi style. Let's say we also have 3 Mexican/AMERICANS who  are  
also playing in that same style. Then we have 3 Cubans playing  in  
that same style. The last Texan is actually an Eskimo and is  also  
playing in that style. The question IS: who influenced who?  And,  
could you tell the difference?

What I'm saying is, that  each and every person is going to have  
different stimuli regardless of  :
1... where they live
2... where they ONCE lived
3... where their  parents and grandparents are from
4... what musicians they happen to  know
5... what musicians the have ever heard
and a couple dozen other  reasons (religion or lack thereof, sexual  
orientation, political bent,  socio-economic standing...and yada  

I think we are  all a culmination of so many factors that trying to  
come to a  consensus is going to be very tough. I have fooled around  
with (key  word is FOOL) a number of instruments and I can honestly  
say that each  one HAS influenced each other one. They all have their  
limitations,  good points, bad points, and are (basically) only  
limited by the input  of the person (trying) playing them.
I have also been to 11 grade schools, 3  high schools, a Jr. College,  
a trade school, and over the years have  received instruction in a lot  
of other things. That HAS to have an  effect. I have probably moved 17  
times in my life. That HAS to have an  affect. I also bore easily and  
move from interest to interest. That  HAS to have an effect.

Now I'm not saying that a person who lives in the  same town all their  
life has any less input. Input is input. I'm also  not saying that an  
older person has any more input than a younger  person. People live at  
different rates of acceleration/de-celleration.  Input is input. I  
think we hear stuff, it gets filed, and may come up  later. When and  
how (and IF) is the mystery. If a person can tap into  this, THAT is  
their 'sound' or style or whatever it's called. It is  THEM.

sorry for the  rant.........smokey-joe"

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