Re: [Harp-L] Horns Sounds Like Harp Sounds Like Horns

[Joe and Cass Leone <leone@xxxxxxxx>]

On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:37 AM, James wrote:

> Regarding this discussion two names come to mind: Cootie Williams  
> and Jed Davenport
> Cootie Williams, as many of you know, played with the Ellington  
> Orchestra. He has these mutes and stuff like the "plumber's helper"  
> and stuff and he could play the most incredible "rural sounds" in a  
> most sophisticated way. I always believed he listened to harp players.

It's possible. I have heard that Clyde McCoy listened to harp  
players. A lot of his slurs are not what you would normally expect on  
trumpet.

> Jed Davenport was both a jug band harp player and a pit musician  
> (trumpet) He played in high keys (E) and he played some cool lines

High keys seem to be something that came along after 1952 (Maynard  
Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Chet Baker).

> I always wondered what came first? The trumpet lines or the harp  
> lines. Were the trumpet players listening to the harp players or  
> the reverse or both at the same time.

I feel that everyone was listening to everyone. That would be the  
smart thing to do, and since I'm not that smart and 'I' came up with  
it, someone else HAD to beat me to it. The geographical reference the  
other day got me interested too. It was postulated that people from  
various areas might be influenced by musics and musicians from that  
area. Like was a particular harp player from Louisiana that much  
different from the majority of the players (who happened to be from  
Mississippi).

I (reverently) have to cast that aside. Because if I were to stand in  
Bossier City Louisiana, I don't really think I could tell I wasn't in  
Tyler Texas. Or, if I were standing on the west bank of the  
Mississippi in Talulah Louisiana, I don't think I could distinguish  
it from the east side in Vicksburg Mississippi.

I always thought it would be fun to take 10 trumpet players from  
Texas. Now everyone knows that Texas doesn't have a majority of  
native Texans any more. The population explosion ( witnessed by the  
steep hike in electoral votes), is primarily due to transplants. Now  
lets say that 3 of these Texans are Mexican and playing in the  
Mariachi style. Let's say we also have 3 Mexican/AMERICANS who are  
also playing in that same style. Then we have 3 Cubans playing in  
that same style. The last Texan is actually an Eskimo and is also  
playing in that style. The question IS: who influenced who? And,  
could you tell the difference?

What I'm saying is, that each and every person is going to have  
different stimuli regardless of :
1... where they live
2... where they ONCE lived
3... where their parents and grandparents are from
4... what musicians they happen to know
5... what musicians the have ever heard
and a couple dozen other reasons (religion or lack thereof, sexual  
orientation, political bent, socio-economic standing...and yada  
infinitum).

I think we are all a culmination of so many factors that trying to  
come to a consensus is going to be very tough. I have fooled around  
with (key word is FOOL) a number of instruments and I can honestly  
say that each one HAS influenced each other one. They all have their  
limitations, good points, bad points, and are (basically) only  
limited by the input of the person (trying) playing them.
I have also been to 11 grade schools, 3 high schools, a Jr. College,  
a trade school, and over the years have received instruction in a lot  
of other things. That HAS to have an effect. I have probably moved 17  
times in my life. That HAS to have an affect. I also bore easily and  
move from interest to interest. That HAS to have an effect.

Now I'm not saying that a person who lives in the same town all their  
life has any less input. Input is input. I'm also not saying that an  
older person has any more input than a younger person. People live at  
different rates of acceleration/de-celleration. Input is input. I  
think we hear stuff, it gets filed, and may come up later. When and  
how (and IF) is the mystery. If a person can tap into this, THAT is  
their 'sound' or style or whatever it's called. It is THEM.

sorry for the rant.........smokey-joe
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