Re: [Harp-L] plagiarism = lazy

[Philharpn@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 7/2/07 12:07:42 AM, celticguitar1@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes:


> But the lyrics were never exactly the same, nor the guitar parts. There
> are times when some country blues players like Bo Carter recycled their
> guitar parts  for other sets of lyrics, but I can't think of a single
> instance where a country blues blues copped a guitar part from another
> artist note-for-note.
> * * * * * * 
Stolen goods stolen a second time are still stolen. 


If you play God Bless American on a tin whistle and come up with some new 
lyrics that somebody sings along with it you are STILL playing God Bless America.

SO Robert Johnson takes the melody line of the Mississippi Sheiks "Sittin' on 
Top of the World and puts new lyrics to it and invents a NEW song called 
"Come in to My Kitchen." Jug band = guitar. But it you want guitar to guitar check 
out "Kokomo Blues" (Mmm Baby, don't you want to go, mmm baby don't you want 
to go, pack your little suitcase, pop's going to Kokomo) with "Sweet Home 
Chicago." Not only are the lyrics similar, the tune is the same.

Without going on at length, the question is not WHICH song did guitarist 
singer Robert Johnson steal (plagiarize) from a previous song -- but rather name 
one song that DIDN'T come from another song. I think every one of his classic 
masterpieces. IN modern times, Johnson would be considered a stylist, not a 
composer.

And for those of you who subscribed to Robert Johnson's reputed deal with the 
Devil at the Crossroads (traded his soul for ability to play guitar) didn't 
know how pervasive the phonograph record was in the 30s -- where anybody who 
could figure out how to crank up the old Gramophone could listen to music for 
ever.

Robert Johnson arguably made his deal with the phonograph, otherwise how 
would he have learned all his songs that were already out (released) on 78 rpm 
records?

You could have a kid who plays a knockout version of "Juke" that he learned 
by hearing some guy play at a picnic. The kid may not even know the name of the 
song, or who Little Walter was, or that Juke is considered a modern classic. 
He might even consider it his own special song. But if he tried to release it 
somebody -- sooner or later -- would rat him out, and if the tune became a big 
enough hit (anything is possible), the owner(s) of Juke would come after him 
for their share.

The issue is not stealing licks, riffs and tunes. The issue is being aware 
that there is an earlier, possibly original, version of the song. Knowing that 
you can make up your mind whether you prefer the Mississippi Sheik's "Sitting 
on Top of the World" (or somebody's guitar version of Sitting on Top of the 
World) over "Come in to My Kitchen." 

(Robert Johnson reported started out playing the harmonica, so you can see 
where all this can lead.)

Little Walter takes "This Train" and changes it from a religious song (this 
train is bound for glory, this train, this train don't carry no gamblers, this 
train) to "My Babe."

People who don't recognize the connection between earlier tunes and later 
ones using the same "melody" and similar and identical pieces of lyrics either 
aren't paying attention or have no sense of the history of the repertoire. This 
is not necessarily a bad thing; you can enjoy a tune without knowing who wrote 
it or who is performing it. 

On the original topic that started this whole string: whether some guy 
playing somebody else's solo in the middle of his own song without attribution. 
There's a very good reason for that. Every time somebody takes something (steals, 
lifts) without giving attribution the intent is deliberate to give the 
impression that the work is the performer's. (cover versions of songs excepted).

Why do you think people "forget" to footnote history books or term papers? If 
they used quote marks and footnotes it would be obvious to the reader that a 
large section of the work came from somebody else, instead of the author.

I think Glenn was too kind in his assessment of the guy who copped the 
solo(s). It was lazy, but mostly lame. This goes beyond whether the "quoted 
material" rises to legal plagiarism.

Consider: If you have some really good material, WHY would you use somebody 
else's?

The guy was not just lazy, he was lame. And verging on the trite and 
hackneyed cliche of blues harp playing. 

And the problem is, if you're going to use this borrowed material, you 
probably ought to make it clear upfront (or backannounce) that you were merely 
quoting. Otherwise, you're playing Jingle Bells in the middle of a tune and passing 
it off as improv.

As for this guy, you would expect better from a name professional.

Phil Lloyd
But then, what do I know?







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