[Harp-L] Re: Harp-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 48

["john" <jjthaden@xxxxxxxxx>]

I only get the digest so someone may have brought this 
up by now, but it probably should be said in this thread 
for completeness that there there are three alternations
that can happen on adjacent holes. Let's take 4-5D:
You can truly alternate them, so one stops when the
other starts; you can have 4D play through while 5D
starts and stops; and you can have 5D play through
while 4D stops and starts.  The first two are common.
The first is a more aggressive, harder sound to my
ears and is more what you'd hear on a piano.  
The second (described by Larry Marks) can easily
be done on an organ and to my ears is a less out-
front technique. I use it more than the first one.  All
three can be played with a head shake, or by moving
the harp in a straigh line, or by rotating the harp so
each end gets alternates being closer to a cheek
I gather that both can be played with the tongue too.
-John Thaden 

>>>>>>>From: Wolf Kristiansen <wolfkristiansen@xxxxxxxx>  Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:20:52 PM >>>>>>>>
>Thanks to all who replied, both on-list and off-list,
>to my question about tongue flutter.  All of the
>suggested approaches (they varied) will be used as I
>attempt to acquire this skill.  
>
>So, here's a related question, directed especially to
>those who use it.  Does anybody generate a trill (two
>rapidly alternating adjacent notes on the harmonica)
>using the tongue alone?  That is, with no head-shake
>at all? If you do, I'd love to hear a description of
>how you do it, so I can try that too.
>
>Our local blues band, Thunderbird (no relation to "The
>Fabulous Thunderbirds", and now long gone), had the
>pleasure of warming up for James Cotton on three or
>four occasions in the mid to late 70s at the Commodore
>Ballroom in Vancouver, B.C. I was the harp player.  
>
>I had many conversations about blues harp with James
>during those times.  One I remember vividly was about
>how to make a trill, though I don't think he called it
>that.  I've seen variations of this story in print,
>but here's what he told me:
>
>When he was starting out in Chicago (having moved up
>from Memphis or Helena) he asked Little Walter how he
>made that sound (a trill). Walter said, "Sure, I'll
>show you", pulled out a harmonica, turned his back on
>James, and produced the trill without moving his head.
>That was the end of the one and only lesson Little
>Walter gave on this point. It left James no further
>ahead.
>
>James told Otis Spann what happened.  Otis said (here
>I'm quoting James), "It ain't nothin' but this"-- and
>played two alternating notes on the piano, at first
>slowly and then rapidly to produce the characteristic
>sound of a trill as heard on the harmonica.  James
>told me that's how he finally got it. 
>
>My point, for this topic, is that it's pretty clear to
>me that Little Walter, at least sometimes, produced
>trills with his tongue. Anybody else do it, especially
>as their preferred method? 
>
>Cheers,
>
>Wolf

>------------------------------
>From: Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:51:35 -0800 (PST)>>>>
>Rapid alternation of two notes with just the tongue?
>
>I used to do it with adjacent holes when playing in a rack while I played harmonica. But I found for some reason that I could only do it when rack playing. If I held the harp I couldn't get the tongue tip small enough to alternate between just two holes. The sound always reminded me a little of Sonny Terry's sound, though I have no idea if he did that.
>
>However, for non-adjacent holes, I use tongue motino and so did Little Walter (Oh Baby is one example - cover three holes, block two, and move your tongue from side to side to alternate between corners of the mouth).
>
>For alternating adjacent holes you can just move the harp. It's a very small hand motion. Harp-and-hand(even with a mic) involves less mass than moving your head. It's a bit easier to control than your tongue  as it doesn't require a tiny movement of a relatively large object (tongue) in a tiny space (hole in your mouth and harmonica holes). To me it sounds like Walter moved the harp and not his head; head shakers get a different sound to my ear, more aggressive sounding and less fluid.
>
>By the way, "trill" has a specific meaning in standard music terminology, and alternating adjacent harmonica holes mostly doesn't fit. You're less likely to offend non-harmonica musicians if you call it a "shake' or a "warble" or a "roll." For it to be a trill, the two notes have to be adjacent notes in the scale so that they set up a dissonance and create tension.  Alternating Draw 6 and Draw 7 is a trill, properly speaking (A and B on a C harp), while alternating Draw 4 and 5 (F and A) is not, as F and A are not adjacent in the scale. 
>
>Winslow

>>>> Larry Marks <larry.marks@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 21/12/2007 12:04 >>>
>I heard a guy do it in Berkeley (Larry Blake's Blue Monday for you Bay 
>Areans) once. I never spoke to him about it, but I could clearly see and 
>hear that he was doing a pseudo-trill (the blues 4-5D) with his tongue 
>alone by covering and uncovering the 5, while playing the 4 straight 
>through. Admired the tongue work, but I didn't like the sound. I shake.
>
>Larry Marks

>>>>> "Rick Dempster" <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx> Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:22:01 +1100>>>>>>
>It has a subtly different sound to the 'shake'. I started 
doing it from the example of Gwen Foster, usually with
 a block of one, two or three holes. Now I use it as well 
in place of the usual 'shake', sometimes with the block, a
or sometimes on two adjacent holes. One favourite 
application of this is in a fifth position minor blues with 
an alternating blow on holes two & three, being the 
root and minor third of the I chord, and similarly on 
blow one & two or two and three producing the 
minor third and fifth of the IV chord (when the 
IV is minor) It is a more 'keyboard-like' sound, 
which is my intention, trying to produce a 
sort of organ-like backing. It has a passive 
sound, compared to the head/hand 'shake'.
>RD
>