Re: [Harp-L] Subjectivity subject

[Philharpn@xxxxxxx]

Let me see if I understand the premise here: 
This argument is about how great a harmonica player Stevie Wonder is?

And because he plays other instruments and composes, he gets demerits???




In a message dated 11/22/06 10:43:18 PM, jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:


> jazmaan wrote:
> 
> "Some people disagree with the very notion that one player can be the 
> "best".  They don't like
> comparing musicians period.    I am not one of those people."
> 
> I am one of those people, and I'm about to try and show why with the 
> following.
> 
> "When Charlie Parker was living, he was universally recognized by his 
> peers as being the best alto
> player on the planet.   In his prime, Bird was so highly regarded 
> that when he showed up for an
> unplanned unrehearsed guest appearance with the Woody Herman Herd, 
> every musician in that band
> ceded his solo space to Bird!"
> 
> Which goes to show that Parker was highly regarded.  He still is.  Is 
> he "the best"?  I have no idea.  Personally, I don't care much for 
> bebop, so he doesn't rank high on my list of favorite alto sax 
> players in jazz.  I doubt he'd rank high on the list of classical sax 
> players (small as it may be) and frankly I think he doesn't rate when 
> talking about r&b (and obviously can't be considered for things such 
> as funk which evolved after his death).  I've got some truly great 
> Ethiopian sax playing on CD, I bet that Parker wouldn't be high on 
> the list of players in that genre either, for some reason.  Hell, 
> while he may have dominated at his time (and still does) in terms of 
> press and the like, there were other bebop altoists who in hindsight 
> can make a decent claim for equal talent, if not significance.
> 
> "When Jimi Hendrix first arrived in England as an unknown, he asked 
> if he could sit in with Cream.
> At the time people considered Cream's guitarist, Eric Clapton to be 
> "God".  When Hendrix began to
> play, Clapton was stunned.  He walked offstage mid-song and asked 
> Jimi's manager "Can he really be
> that good?"    Jeff Beck saw him play and bitterly asked Pete 
> Townsend  "Am I just supposed to
> give up playing guitar now?" "
> 
> In the context of heavy guitar-based rock of the late 60's, Hendrix 
> certainly shined then and shines now (dying young helped a lot in 
> terms of the legend).  Was he the best?  Personally I'd rather listen 
> to either Townsend or Beck from that time period.  Am I an idiot that 
> "the best" player doesn't move me?  Or does that mean that maybe, 
> just maybe, my idea of what "the best" is might just be different 
> from yours?  If so, doesn't that pretty much negate the concept?  I 
> mean, if we define the criteria we can say what "the best" car is or 
> "the best" computer within whatever criteria we choose, but even then 
> without specifically picking one single category it's meaningless.  
> Take the car example, if we're talking about fuel-efficiency it may 
> be one thing.  Efficient output of horse-power to fuel another.  
> Torque yet another.  If we're talking about the "best looking", well, 
> then we're into the completely subjective.
> 
> And that is where all this "best harmonica player" stuff resides.  It 
> is completely, totally and utterly subjective.  Even making a list of 
> the "20 best" is going to be such.  If we all did it we might see 
> some general consensus, but that still wouldn't make anything 
> definitive--it would just be the generally regarded people amongst 
> this group, and no less subjective for that.  Can anyone here 
> honestly say that Little Walter is better than Toots?  DeFord 
> Bailey?  Can we even find a way to start comparing such radically 
> different styles of playing?  I really don't think we can.
> 
> "I use Hendrix and Bird as proof of the concept that one player can 
> indeed be "The Best"."
> 
> And let's go back to Hendrix.  At about that same time most jazz fans 
> wouldn't have even recognized him as being any good (hell, most hated 
> Miles for liking Hendrix).  Wes Montgomery or maybe Joe Pass would 
> have gotten the nod for "the best" in jazz circles.  The same 
> situation was going on in bluegrass, country and other genres: 
> Hendrix wasn't even on the radar.  And why should he be--he wasn't 
> playing in those genres.  But even if we limit the criteria as much 
> as possible, ie, British guitarists (which Hendrix essentially was 
> during his height) of the late 60's and early 70's heavy rock scene, 
> we still end up being completely subjective because to me Hendrix 
> wasn't "the best"--as I said, I prefer others of that time period to 
> him.  Still, I wouldn't call any of them "the best", because they 
> weren't: they are just my favorites.
> 
> "If you
> accept that concept"
> 
> Then I strongly suggest opening your (and here I am copying the 
> generic "you"--not a specific person, but anyone who reads this) eyes 
> to the beauty of the real, subjective world on these things and stop 
> trying to make everything fit a list or into a contest.  Shakespeare 
> isn't the greatest writer ever; Bach isn't the best composer ever; 
> and "Gone With The Wind" isn't the best movie ever.  They may be your 
> favorites, but that's all--and if that's not enough, then I wonder 
> who you are trying to convince.
> 
> I haven't heard the Stevie thing in question, but I will.  Stevie is 
> amongst my favorite musicians ever.  He's also one of my favorite 
> harmonica players--very distinctive style yet always focused on the 
> song and doesn't let the style get in the way of that.  This is shown 
> throughout his career, though his early standards works tend to stand 
> out in this way.  An excellent example of how you can always sound 
> like yourself, but if you know how to use it never sound out of place 
> (Carlos Santana is similar, IMO, to give another example).  It is a 
> very, very hard thing to pull off--most people with a recognizable 
> sound or style tend not to travel anywhere near the way Stevie can 
> with his harmonica playing in terms of changing genres and changing 
> roles (sideman, frontman, solo, accompaniment, etc...).
> 
>   ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
> ()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
> `----'
> 
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