[Harp-L] re: Tea...

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

jazmaan wrote:

"Jonathan wrote about "Take the 'A' Train" being difficult on XB-40,  
diatonic and chromatic.  Well
maybe so, but its fairly easy in 1st position on an XB-Melody.   I  
can upload a sample to Chris'
website if you like."

I've been playing it in first on a Paddy Richter XB-40, which should  
be just as easy (considering that the F# is no harder to get as a  
bend on an XB than the F, which you'd also need) and am convinced  
that you can't get it to sound like anything other than mud in the  
fast chromatic runs after the first bars--there are just too many  
bends next to each other at too high a speed.  I'd love to hear your  
try, and will hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I've been  
practicing this for a while now as a bending exercise and it's just  
nasty.

"As for "Girl From Ipanema" Jonathan felt THAT was an easy tune - but  
he said he's never tried the
bridge."

Actually, I was wrong--I had tried the bridge.  Just my mind had  
blocked it out because it was so horrible to do.  That's an  
exaggeration, but I'd have to think long and hard about how to do  
this part--perhaps some harp-switching and alternate tunings might  
make it easier.  On the same harp as the A sections it's not much  
fun--too many long held bent notes in too exposed a position,  
especially for the second of the three stanzas.  The first is  
difficult, but not horrible, and the third quite easy, but the second  
is quite a challenge, if even doable without sounding like a drunken  
trombonist.  The placement of the held bent notes is the problem--a  
bit too out in front for where I like my bends.

"Well that's a pretty important part of the song isn't it? ;> "

Yes, but I can't do it from memory and haven't really been practicing  
it, so when I try the piece I usually can only remember the A parts.  
If I were to practice it, I'd add the bridge in, of course--and do  
when I play it on chrom, actually as I can remember the fingering, as  
it were.

"Try the bridge and then
tell us if you still think its easy!"

On a chromatic it is.  :)  On a diatonic it is another story entirely  
(at least the first two stanzae--after that it's just fine).  For  
different reasons than the "A" train, but still not very pleasant.   
Probably more doable, actually, but I'd want to find a more friendly  
way bends-wise.  But, the bridge of "Take the "A" Train" is not  
particularly hard either--again interesting how some parts of a song  
can be easy and then the rest hard to transpose--indeed, the part  
which often seems hardest at first listen might be the easy one and  
vice versa.

"I'll try "Tea for Two" on diatonic in 12th position and also in 1st  
position with one overblow as
was suggested by list-members, and report back."

I think I'll try "Tea in the Sahara" myself (just read an Andy  
Summers interview:).

Slim wrote:

"Yes, you can certainly choose to look at it that way. Just goes to  
show how different folks react differently to music. I had the  
opposite impression of Toots' version -- it is the essence of  
musicality to me -- relaxed, hip, and beautiful, like most of his work."

To me Toots almost pulls it off because of his musical creativity,  
but the notes just aren't there the way they should be.  It's not as  
if he's doing a real avant-garde or free interpretation of the piece  
or any other particularly radical reworking (Weather Report derived  
fusion did swing often enough) so that you could get away with  
imprecision.  In a piece this well known, I find you either have to  
totally deconstruct it or hit the notes dead on.  Anything in-between  
ends up sounding flubbed.  I usually agree about your description of  
Toots (sometimes he's too relaxed if anything), but you can't out-hip  
missed or mis-hit notes.

Of course, to each their own.  One thing is that I don't make any  
excuses just because it's a harmonica player, even Toots.  If a  
guitarist or other player had the same problems, I'd feel the same  
way.  For some pieces, you've just got to hit the notes. (not saying  
that you are making such excuses--just that's the way I listen--if  
you love the piece, fine by me, of course, just this is an example  
where I think it doesn't work, for the reasons I gave about the  
technical difficulties)

"To me, jazz is about interpretation, finding the sweet spot on your  
instrument. If you want the other kind of perfection, plug the notes  
into a sequencer and you're done. "

That seems like a silly oversimplification.  Ellington for one, and  
Zawinul for another, wrote works that needed to be as precisely  
played as anything Beethoven or Bach wrote, and they crafted their  
bands around this.  They allowed great freedom to interpret and solo  
within their compositions, but the main aspects need to be spot on.   
Actually, the same is true of Sun Ra--seemingly random oft-times, but  
trust me you know it if someone's off.  And we're talking about  
Ellington and an extremely well-known piece here (well, Strayhorn,  
actually, but written for Ellington).  It's not a case of the notes  
into a sequencer, but rather just playing the notes correctly to  
begin with--then take off.  That's the traditional school of jazz,  
and Toots is very much a traditionalist in terms of his history, and  
even the approach in this song (the fusion rhythm wasn't really a  
radical rethinking in terms of how you play the piece).  I'd probably  
give Ornette Coleman more leeway, but he'd probably be much more out  
to begin with and not really try to get it right.  To me, Toots is  
trying and not succeeding--I really don't hear relaxation in his  
playing here, but a difficult struggle; it struck me when I first  
heard it, as it's very much not what he usually does.

I applaud him for trying, but that's not the same as saying it works.

"I agree (and who wouldn't?) that the harmonica is not as versatile  
as piano, sax, guitar, etc"

I wouldn't.  The harmonica can be every bit as versatile as any  
instrument, but it depends on what you ask it to do.  There are  
things a harmonica can do that any of those can't and vice-versa.  I  
didn't bring this up as an example of versatility, but rather an  
example of what are the challenges unique to the harmonica for a  
specific song, which just happens to be easy on most other  
instruments (though I can't say about guitar offhand).  I wouldn't  
expect a xylophone to bend notes, but that doesn't mean it's not a  
versatile instrument.

"But for me, it's simply a question of what sounds good in the moment  
and whether or not there's something unique and compelling the  
harmonica player can add in a particular context."

That makes sense, but this is an example where I think the harmonica  
hasn't added anything because he couldn't play the head well enough  
not to be distracting.  When he gets to the soloing, Toots adds a ton  
(as always), but this particularly head and melody end up detracting  
from the song as a whole because he just can't get the notes right,  
IMO--and this is one where you just can't get "close enough", you've  
got to be dead on.   Actually, I'd been thinking that perhaps the  
best way is to lay out and jump in for the solo--IIRC, that's what  
Armstrong does on "The Great Summit" (but I could be wrong--it's been  
a while since I heard that).  As you said, it's what you can add, and  
if you can't add, then best to wait till you can.



 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'