Re: [Harp-L] re: pathetic
If you ask any average people here in Germany for some harmonica
players,
then you'll hear 'em say: "Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen".
Non-Blues-oriented folks have no idea about either of the Walters, not
to mention JP. Eventually - if they're at least a bit into Jazz, they
would know TT, and some less would name Stevie Wonder.
cu,
Ralf
-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:05:15 +0200
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] re: pathetic
From: "Chris Michalek"
To: "Jonathan Ross" , harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
I think in 100 years the harmonica players that will be remembered will
be
Litte Walter
John Popper
Toots Thielemans (Maybe)
Stevie Wonder
There are NOT enough good players on the planet at the moment to
convince other "real" musicians the harmonica is a "real" instrument.
The harmonica is easily one of the most difficult instruments to play
well and in the diatonic there might be three or four people in the
world who can play it well eg; with advanced technique, with good
intonation, with musicality etc..
BTW- JP, JR is correct about my leaning toward acid jazz. I've been
playing in the acid jazz, funk, soul and jam arena for a while now
however that might be changing again very soon...
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Ross [mailto:jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 09:35 PM
>To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [Harp-L] re: pathetic
>
>In deference to fjm, let's leave the specific Wikipedia out of this
>and just think about which players should be in a general-knowledge
>encyclopedia under the harmonica header.
>
>First, I'll answer one thing.
>
>JP wrote:
>
>"the rest is
>kinda debatable. is Michalek acid? dunno. "
>
>That is not at all the point I was trying to make. Perhaps the part
>about Dylan confused matters--I probably should have omitted that.
>What I was trying to point out was not so much the categories (which
>really were odd) of genres listed, but rather the choices. It looks
>like a who's who of the harp-l inner-circle. The problem with that
>is that it is not at all a reflection of reality in any way shape or
>form. I like Chris, and I like his playing. I don't mean to pick on
>him, and the following should NOT be read as a value judgement. But,
>if you were to list the top hundred selling albums by harmonica
>players, Chris wouldn't be there. Even if you limited it by saying
>an artist is only represented once (ie, all of Little Walter's
>playing is included in toto, not each album individually) I can
>pretty safely say Chris isn't there.
>
>Is Chris an excellent harmonica player and do I enjoy listening to
>his playing? Yes on both. Is Chris someone I like? Yes, I consider
>him a friend (even though I'm probably pissing him off right now).
>Would it be nice if he were on that list? Of course. Same with many
>others (Wade Schumman, Carlos DelJunco, Richard Hunter all come to
>mind). But let's have some reality here: an encyclopedia should give
>a broad, big-picture overview, and half the people named just cannot
>even begin to be considered that.
>
>So, who should be included in the broadest overview of a general
>encyclopedia (in this case, if you want to make a list of all "Folk
>Harmonica" players you could--but according to even Wikipedia's own
>rules you should start a new stub-page for "Folk Harmonica" in
>specific and not continue to clutter the main overview page)? Well,
>that is a bit subjective, but only a bit.
>
>What are the criteria for inclusion? I'd say impact on the music
>world as a whole should count--and by that I don't mean someone who
>just plays harp once but is otherwise a major figure. Impact
>indicates someone who is noted as a harmonica player or for their
>harmonica playing. I'd also say that historic importance should play
>a role. How important was this person to the development of their
>genre or the specific development of the instrument. Now, in both
>cases sales is a decent, though not exclusive, way of viewing this.
>Other measures of popularity should also be considered, such as
>influence amongst peers and those who came later. But, if all else
>is essentially equal, than sales is a damn good indicator.
>
>So, in alphabetical order by genre, here is a first attempt. A lot
>of people who should be listed in each genre's sub-page are omitted.
>This is only the broadest of the broad for those who know nothing
>about the subject to get a quick look. Nothing more and nothing
>less. Something along the lines of the following--note, items in
>[ brackets] are comments, not in the main text:
>
>"The harmonica has been used in many genres, the following is a list
>of genres and prominent harmonica players in those fields:
>
>Blues: Little Walter, ne Marion Walter Jacobs. Sonny Boy Williamson
>#2, ne Rice Miller. [Cases could be made for others, particularly
>Junior Wells and John Lee "Sonny Boy" Williamson, but again--broad
>view.]
>
>Classial: Larry Adler. [Cases could be made for John Sebastian Sr.
>and Tommy Reilly, in that order IMO--but Adler stands head and
>shoulders above everyone else when it comes to broad-based impact--he
>was actually quite famous.]
>
>Country: Charlie McCoy. [There are many very good country players,
>but McCoy is _the_ one, and that's what should go here.]
>
>Folk: Sonny Terry. [Yes, I know, Dylan--see below; same for DeFord
>Bailey.]
>
>Funk: Stevie Wonder, ne Steveland Morris [IIRC]. Lee Oskar, with
>the band "War".
>
>Jazz: Jean "Toots" Theileman(sp). Howard Levy. [In that order--
>Levy is great, but Toots is jazz harmonica and has been for fifty
>years.]
>
>Rock: John Popper, with the band "Blues Traveller". Magic Dick, ne
>Mark Salwitz [IIRC--fortunately this isn't an actual article] of "The
>J. Geils Band".
>
>Many musicians primarily known for other skills (singing,
>songwriting, guitar playing, etc...) have also regularly used the
>harmonica. Bob Dylan is perhaps the one most associated with this
>group, usually playing harmonica in a special holding device (rack)
>around his neck which leaves his hands free to play guitar.
>
>Also, the harmonica's popularity through the years can be shown by
>those who do not fit in any genre, yet were still very successful.
>The best two examples of this are DeFord Bailey, one of the first
>stars of the Grand Ole Opry and The Harmonicats, a harmonica trio who
>had a #1 pop-chart hit in the 1940's with the song "Peg O' My Heart"."
>
>
>
>There, that's it. A broad overview which gives a brief look at those
>who are both most representative of their genres and also most
>important in them with regards to the harmonica. Completely
>uncomprehensive, but that's what an encyclopedia should be. If you
>want more, the particular one we were talking about allows for
>greater detail, but preferably not on the main page, where it will
>only confuse novices and skew perceptions. There's no need to talk
>about Acid or Hip-Hop or anything else and all the two people playing
>harp in those genres who have never actually recorded. That is _not_
>what the first page on an encyclopedia is for. It's also not for up-
>ann-comers who haven't been around long enough to judge their
>impact. What it is for is the most broad overview possible without
>major errors (such as listing Stevie as "folk" rather than "funk").
>
>That was the main point I was trying to make about the specific
>inclusions. The point about Wikipedia is pretty much made by the
>fact this egregious inclusion was there in the first place.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ()() JR "Bulldogge" Ross
>() () & Snuffy, too:)
>`----'
>
>
>
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