[Harp-L] RE: bending using tongue-block (AKA shut up already, Dennis!)

[Ludo Beckers <ludobeckers@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

        (long - replies to Dennis, Elizabeth, Sam, Glenn, John)
  
Dennis:
I wish I had more time to devote to this topic, but my
time is very limited this week 
   
  Ludo: 
  No problem, I'll be here next week if all goes well :-)
   
  D:
<< I have worked hard at examining what the masters have done, what I do, how I do it, and how to explain it to others.<<
   
  L: 
  That's a good reason for addressing you with these type of questions then ;-)

D: <<the best way to tell what those players did (in my opinion) is with a working knowledge of the technique, coupled with good ear.
   
  L:
  I do TB and (pucker-) OB, but admittedly rarely use a TB-bend in holes 1-3. 
  Possibly my ear doesn't catch the subtilities in that area.
  
D: 
  <<I also did not mean that the TB overblow thing has
been done to death....just the TB/Pucker thing. 
   
  L: 
  Totally agreed; so now let's do the same with TB overblow ;-)
   
  D:
  << I hate to see it get heated (nooooo.....here on Harp-L??!!)
   
  L:
  I wouldn't be in the kitchen if I couldn't take the heat :-)
  On the other hand, too many cooks are gonna spoil the stew, so let's all be carefull with any flames :-) (dumb pun, I know)

D:
  << The placement of the tongue (for this
argument's sake) is of not much consequence. The
technique of bending is what needs to be focused
on...how to get the correct pitch and manipulate your
playing/breathing/air chamber to get the desired
pitch.
   
  L:
  I agree, I've more than once claimed that if my tongue were to be cut off, I'd still be able to bend.

D:
  Same with TB overblows. Of course, lots of practice is
needed, <<
   
  L:
  So far most everybody told me I'd be crazy to want to practise this. 
  I definitely see use(s) for it though, and will take it in my practise regime as from today as an experiment.
   
  D:
  << I appreciate the emails and questions, and I hope this
post is useful. 
   
  L:
  As you can see it's motivational enough :-) and I appreciate your time on this!
   
  Elizabeth:
  << I can't help but find it curious why you continually question Dennis about his ability to detect whether a player is or is not TB'ing? 
   
  L:
  I don't question his ability at all.
  The detection part had to do with bending holes 1-3 solely, a point where Dennis has a different experience than mine, and I might add, it is about the only detail of the TB vs pucker debates that hasn't been discussed to death (oh no, what am I doing.... ;-))
  Another part has to do with the fact that he is one of the very few on this planet that plays overblows with TB; not something you'd ask your every day blues player.
   
  E:
  << In addition he's a highly respected teacher......<<
   
  L:
  Hence the questions!
  I don't think I sounded disrespectfull at any point, did I?
   
  E:
  << I don't find discussions of it here have or would help me learn the technique....
   
  L:
  Our mileage varies :-)
  Some people can be very accurate in describing certain techniques (that's a reply to Sam Blancato at the same time).
   
  E:
<< As you've admitted, you don't put in the time necessary to practice...
   
  L:
  Untrue.
  I admitted not practising TB-OB on a regular basis; I do practise about six days a week for at least an hour per day.
   
  E:
  <<and if one were to pay any attention at all to those who are the real musicians here...
   
  L:
  Of which I consider myself one!
   
  E:
  << I'm not the one questioning Dennis' "ear". 
   
  L:
  Neither am I; I hope that's cleared.
   
  E:
  please do not let his relative youth fool you....he is an old, wise soul in a young body.
   
  L:
  Hey, I'm only 48, that's still young in my book :-)
  There are plenty of talented younger people I highly respect!
  Dennis included.

E:
  <<Just for the heck of it....if I do manage to see James Cotton in concert on March 10 << I'll ask him the 
question and post his response.
   
  L:
  Great!
  Please be sure to emphasize we're talking about bending holes 1, 2 and 3 with TB; the rest of the harp is very obvious.
    BTW, Elizabeth, the added bit in the header "AKA shut up already, Dennis!" was added by Dennis - tongue in cheek I hope I can presume.
  
Glenn Weiser:

  <<It is a complicated question. It was very hard, for example, to find out accurate inforamtion on deceased players like Little Walter, (U-block, TB, and maybe pucker as well), Walter Horton (pucker and TB), Sonny Boy I
(pucker and TB), and Sonny Boy II (probably all TB). 
   
  L:
  And even harder I assume to know in detail, like "did he TB draw bend hole 1"?
   
  GW:
  <<what you play is more important than the
technique you uses to play it with. If your phrasing is sharp, your timing good, and your playing imbued with feeling, does it matter all that much if you use straight TB or a pucker-TB mix? I don't think so ( I mix TB and
pucker myself, and like the sound of 3-draw with U-block.).
    L:
  Ofcourse I agree it's all about music.
  Like I said earlier though, I'm quite happy with my present day techniques, but I'm not one those old dogs who won't learn new tricks (not implying you are, Glenn, mind you!) to add to my harp vocabulary.
  
John Kerkhoven:
  << Since posting my last question, I have managed to produce a tongue-blocked OB on the 4 on a couple of harps. (Thanks, Ludo, for pointing me in that direction.)
   
  L:
  Great! (see, Elizabeth, varying mileage)

JK:
  << Using the pucker method, when I OB, the back of my tongue rises to the roof of my mouth. 
   
  L:
  AFAIK this is not the way most OB-ers do it.
  I have a large room in my mouth for OB's (not saying my way is better, but worth an experimental try maybe).
   
  JK:
  <<just requires different muscle control.
   
  L:
  If this thread bleeds to death at some point, feel free to mail me offlist, John, it could be interseting to compare our findings.
   
  Ludo




		
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