Re: [Harp-L] passive agressive sound guys

["Rick Dempster" <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Re this and Tim Moyers's response: I have had plenty of experience with
great sound people, and have toured with sound men who have been like a
right hand. I was referring to the negative side of things. Back in
about 1984 or thereabouts, the band I was in supported Robert Plant (who
actually came to check us out personally) His whole crew were teriffic;
we were told to turn up for a sound check (yeah right!)...and we
actually got one! So, not all bad, and I must say, at least where I
live, the standard of people working in sound has improved over the
years, but there are still people who have no ears at all and shouldn't
be in the game.
RD

>>> "Eric Garcia" <ericgar85@xxxxxxxxxxx> 13/12/2006 5:30:29 >>>
good story..

i have had both the roles of running the venue, and being the
soundman's
boss,,, and being the act, and playing with a variety of non-blues
bands in 
non-bluesvenues,,,
usually for soundmen who have little or no experience with
harmonicas...

the best advice i can give, is.
1. learn thier names first off.

2. stay out of thier way.

3. a spoon full of sugar goes a long way.

..most soundmen are failed and frustrated musicians with inferiority 
complexes--Especially
toward harp players whom most of them consider non-musicians.
..if you treat them with respect (as you should most people) and once
they
see that you can play,,,99% will come around and be as helpfull as
they
can possibly be (which isnt even much some of the time!).

oh yea...
4. try not to go through the board unless the guy really knows what
he's 
doin,,
if you have to,, take a stroll infront of the stage during sound check
while 
you're blowin.

eric garcia


>From: "Rick Dempster" <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Tim Moyer" <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re:  [Harp-L] passive agressive sound guys
>Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:45:23 +1100
>
>Sound men started to think they were part of the band back in the mid
>seventies (at least in my corner of the world) Since then, the inroad
>for these guys has led all the way to bands that have a DJ/mixer
onstage
>as part of the lineup. Now, in any gig where there is a soundnman, we
>always have the situation where, unless you let him 'do his thing',
you
>are excluding him from what he thinks is his rightful position. My
>bands(including the drummers) never want mics on drums, excepting
maybe
>an overhead, and certainly not one on the 'kick'. If the room is a
room,
>and not a stadium, or an open air festival, we don't want mics (or
DIs)
>on the amps  either. Good soundmen are like gold, and again, like
gold,
>are rare and hard to find.
>"It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it"
>was an expression I heard frequently in my one visit to the US 25
years
>ago (especially heard in Missippippi & Alabama, and especially if you
>were in one state and travelling to the other;"what? you aren't
>carrying....?") Lke most technology, when you have it, you think you
>need to use it.
>I prefer the soundmen who do exactly what you want, and then take the
>privelege of going to the bar and awaiting your next command.
>
>RD
> >>> "Tim Moyer" <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 11/12/2006 14:06:22
>>>
>fjm wrote:
> > So who's the customer here?  The band and the
> > venue or the sound person?
>
>I recently played a gig as a sideman with a professional gigging act
>in a medium sized venue (~1000) with its own sound reinforcement and
>sound man (who doubles as the DJ during breaks).  We arrived and set
>up, and the only one running "live" sound on stage was the
>guitarist, who plays through a Blues DeVille 2x12.  The rest of us --
>  acoustic guitar, bass, and myself -- ran straight to the board
>without amplification on stage, and the drummer's kit has built-in
>mics.  This is a really nice setup because the stage volume is low,
>and we were all using in-ear monitors so the mix was the same no
>matter where you went on stage, and you could control it yourself
>from a monitor mixer on stage.  All the sound guy had to do was
>watch the show and keep the sound balanced in the room.
>
>I was lulled into a false sense of security by the fact that I could
>hear everything I was doing.  I played well at a relatively low
>level of "exertion" so I didn't choke notes from trying to play loud
>enough to hear myself.  I ran my microtrack recorder right next to
>the sound board, so it heard what the sound man heard.
>
>And it was a disaster.  Throughout most of the recording you can't
>even tell there's a harmonica on stage, though I was basically
>filling the keyboard players spot with fills and lots of accordion-
>type stuff through a harmonizer and chorus).  This is a fairly set
>act, and there are only a few places throughout the night where I
>get solos, usually trading fours or eights with the guitar.  The
>only time you could hear me at all were during these solos, where I
>swell to ear-splitting volume over the top of everything else,
>usually a bar or two into my solo.  The guitar is mixed similarly,
>though this is a very guitar-centric band.  Most of the time, all
>you can hear is the main vocal (rarely the harmonies), bass and kick
>drum.
>
>The only good thing about all this is that the guys I was playing
>with heard me through their monitors, and were very happy with what
>I did.  They didn't know until they were on their way home,
>listening to their DAT recordings, how bad things sounded.  I'm glad
>nothing spoiled the good time while we were having it.
>
>I think it was Shakespeare who wrote, 'The first thing we do, let's
>kill all the sound men...'
>
>-tim
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org 
>Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx 
>http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l 
>
> >>> "Tim Moyer" <wmharps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 11/12/2006 14:06:22
>>>
>fjm wrote:
> > So who's the customer here?  The band and the
> > venue or the sound person?
>
>I recently played a gig as a sideman with a professional gigging act
>in a medium sized venue (~1000) with its own sound reinforcement and
>sound man (who doubles as the DJ during breaks).  We arrived and set
>up, and the only one running "live" sound on stage was the
>guitarist, who plays through a Blues DeVille 2x12.  The rest of us --
>  acoustic guitar, bass, and myself -- ran straight to the board
>without amplification on stage, and the drummer's kit has built-in
>mics.  This is a really nice setup because the stage volume is low,
>and we were all using in-ear monitors so the mix was the same no
>matter where you went on stage, and you could control it yourself
>from a monitor mixer on stage.  All the sound guy had to do was
>watch the show and keep the sound balanced in the room.
>
>I was lulled into a false sense of security by the fact that I could
>hear everything I was doing.  I played well at a relatively low
>level of "exertion" so I didn't choke notes from trying to play loud
>enough to hear myself.  I ran my microtrack recorder right next to
>the sound board, so it heard what the sound man heard.
>
>And it was a disaster.  Throughout most of the recording you can't
>even tell there's a harmonica on stage, though I was basically
>filling the keyboard players spot with fills and lots of accordion-
>type stuff through a harmonizer and chorus).  This is a fairly set
>act, and there are only a few places throughout the night where I
>get solos, usually trading fours or eights with the guitar.  The
>only time you could hear me at all were during these solos, where I
>swell to ear-splitting volume over the top of everything else,
>usually a bar or two into my solo.  The guitar is mixed similarly,
>though this is a very guitar-centric band.  Most of the time, all
>you can hear is the main vocal (rarely the harmonies), bass and kick
>drum.
>
>The only good thing about all this is that the guys I was playing
>with heard me through their monitors, and were very happy with what
>I did.  They didn't know until they were on their way home,
>listening to their DAT recordings, how bad things sounded.  I'm glad
>nothing spoiled the good time while we were having it.
>
>I think it was Shakespeare who wrote, 'The first thing we do, let's
>kill all the sound men...'
>
>-tim
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org 
>Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx 
>http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l 
>_______________________________________________
>Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org 
>Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx 
>http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l