[Harp-L] "playing"

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dave Murray wrote:

"You must have never been is one of the country churches in the  
Ozarks that I was in in my youth. I have no doubt that you could sing  
with them. Would you tell the nice small church Baptists that they  
are "not singing" because they are not at the level that you set for  
singing of choirs? Your context implies a certain level, that you set."


The people there are singing, of course, but you seem to be missing  
my point: yes, I am trying to define "play" in a specific context.   
We all play, but the question is can the diatonic harmonically be  
played chromatically.  Well, yes, if we call hitting all the notes  
playing.  But, if one asks can it be done in a musical context,  
that's another question--and indeed the real one, IMO.  I enjoy  
semantics as much as anyone else (more) but the main issue is not  
whether the feat can literally be done, but whether the results work  
in a musical context.  Take the above church example: everybody does  
sing (and it's wonderful when they do), but not everyone sings in the  
choir.  The thing is, we aren't talking about just fooling around-- 
we're talking about people who put their music out there for public  
consumption.  Those are two very different things, IMO.

For example.  My dog can (or could) play the panpipes.  He could make  
noises on them, and (with help) even had a degree of control over  
which pipe he played at a time (a tiny, all-but nonexistent degree,  
but a degree).  So, the question then becomes can my dog play music  
on the instrument?  Perhaps, depends on how you define music.  How  
about this: can my dog play a pre-existing song on the instrument.   
No--at least none humans would recognize.

That goes back to this issue of "chromatic diatonic" playing: what is  
the context we're talking about.  If it's one of the player's own  
making, then my definition might not work for "playing".  If the  
context (as is usually the case) is a defined genre such as straight- 
ahead jazz (or even the more generic "jazz") then I think my  
definition of what the criteria for successfully playing the  
instrument "chromatically" would be a good one.  It is, of course, my  
criteria and obviously others don't think it's a good one.  But, I  
then ask what are the criteria they would set?  And, how do those fit  
into the context of the music being discussed.

Me:
"Part of the problem is that we use the same word for all of this.  
"Play" is a great verb, but the fact that both Allen Iverson and I  
"play" basketball seems to be more than a bit over-arching."


DAve Murray:

"Why? My daughter plays basketball on a girls JV team. She's no Allen  
Iverson. Would you say that she is not playing basketball? I'm not  
trying to be argumentative, but I think that you should consider that  
what you are calling context is setting the bar at an elite level and  
then saying that people who don't make it to that level are not doing  
what they are doing at all. Play is a verb, as you say. It does not  
imply the level of play without other words to establish that."


Yes, I am setting the bar high, because that is the context: publicly  
presented music.  That is an elite level.  Moreover, it is one which  
not only is open to but invites criticism.  If someone were to write  
a highly critical, often negative review of your daughter's  
performance it would be cruel: she's out there to have fun and is a  
child.  But, if someone were to do that for a professional like  
Iverson it would be simply their honest review of his performance.   
The reason for the difference is that he puts himself out there for  
criticism, it's expected and if anything needed.  For the most part I  
avoid specific comments on individual players, but if someone puts  
something out for criticism, then it's fair game.  And when they do  
that, by definition the bar is going to be set at a higher level than  
it is for me in my living room.


Dave Murray:

"I play the harmonica. No doubt, my playing is poor and would not  
approach your standards. But telling me that I am not playing the  
harp because I'm not at the level that you establish is actually  
insulting. I'm a bit too thick skinned to care, but it is. There is  
no flame in that."


I'm not saying that you don't play the instrument.  What I am saying  
is that I have yet to hear anyone play the diatonic harmonica  
"chromatically" in the contexts I gave.  The two are different  
statements.  However, I stand by the idea that perhaps there should  
be a different verb for when criticism is intended than when it  
isn't.  But, there isn't, so the need for putting the words into  
context for such a discussion as this.  Thus the need to define  
"play" specifically for this discussion.



 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'