To help in this discussion, here's a link where we can envision the clockwise circle of 5ths /counterclockwise circle of 4ths. Go to Mike Will's great site, _http://myquill.cc//_ (http://myquill.cc//) , then click the link, "Circle of Fifths" on the left side of the page. Hey, i havent' seen Mike on this list in ages. ron