[Harp-L] Intonation and Such

["paul" <paul@xxxxxxxx>]

JR:  OK, so I now understand that brevity isn't a prominent part of your
toolbox . . . 

So, I guess what I understand from your reply is that players should make
good choices when deciding which of the three distinct diatonic
'sound-alities' to use for a particular purpose; in other words . . . don't
choose to play something like Ode to Joy using a 'sound-ality' that doesn't
sound good when playing it . . .

OK . . . well, I'm glad we got that straight . . . I agree wholeheartedly .
. . 
Regards, Paul Messinger/Chapel Hill NC

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:48:53 -0400
From: Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] re: Intonation and Such
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
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Paul M writes:

"JR . . . I'm starting to get confused concerning the point you've been
trying to make . . . "

Sorry.  I was trying to be clear but must not have been.  I'll try to  
be clearer.

"Are you are saying that BOTH bends and overblows are problematic  
because
they don't have the tonal integrity of so-called 'regular'  
notes . . . ???"

Yes, though I wouldn't (and haven't) use the term "problematic".   
They are both different in terms of phrasing and timbre from natural  
notes (intonation can be dealt with, though they have more issues  
than natural notes by the nature of how they are created).

"If so, then what's left to play on a Richter-tuned diatonic???  "

Why is it that you assume simply because something is different and I  
say that needs to be recognized and appreciated you assume that this  
means they can't be used.  The harmonica can be thought of as having  
two (it's really three, as bends and overblows are two distinct  
phenomena, but for this a dichotomy actually works) different types  
of notes: naturals and accidentals (not the same as in a piano, but  
the intent works).  The naturals represent one physical phenomena,  
the accidentals another.  Knowing how to use these together is the  
key.  Specifically, since the natural notes are much easier to use  
and master, as well as much less prone to certain issues (see above,  
though here intonation is back in play--it's very easy to play an  
accidental with bad intonation, fairly hard to do so with a natural  
note), knowing when and how to use the accidentals is key to playing  
the harmonica to it's fullest potential.  Ignoring the difference  
between the phenomena tends to lead, IMO, to fairly unmusical results.

I have never and will never say you can't or shouldn't use the  
accidentals (bends and overblows).  What I have said is that it's  
important to know when and how to use them to best effect and to  
recognize that they are not just naturals with a slightly different  
technique for getting them.  There are many times when you can use  
them without having them stick out much at all--it depends on the  
style of music, the particular song and what position (or tuning, for  
that matter) you're using.  For instance, I find that something like  
"Sweet Georgie Brown" while using many accidentals does lay fairly  
well in 2nd position on a standard tuned diatonic (with good control  
of bends, of course).  Here they are in places where you can get away  
with the timbre and phrasing issues (though not the intonation, for  
the most part--that needs to be pretty spot-on).  But, in something  
like the melody from "The Ode to Joy", you can't, because of where  
and how the bent note in 2nd position comes in the song.  It depends  
on the context of the song and the style of the music--and the Ode  
has much fewer bends.

"If you are advocating only the use of so-called 'regular' notes as  
tonally
pure, then one would suppose that the only music that can be played on a
Richter-tuned diatonic is 'some' folk, fiddle, or 'Oompah' tunes . . ."

See above.  I am not advocating that,  I never have and never will.

"Otherwise, one will have to play either chromatic or alternately tuned
harmonicas to achieve this 'tonal purity' to play other styles of  
music . ."

I do believe that any diatonic harmonica can never be played with  
"tonal purity" (not my term), though I would say it's the timbre and  
phrasing issues which hurt as much or more than intonation (which can  
be gotten quite good).  In terms of timbre and phrasing, accidentals  
will never sound the same as naturals, and if one is playing a  
musical form where this is needed, then one will need to find another  
way than simply using naturals and accidentals on the diatonic (in  
any tuning--these issues don't go away by using an alternate tuning,  
though that might make certain things for certain songs easier).   
Now, that doesn't mean you can't play many highly complex styles on  
the diatonic.  It means you have to choose very, very carefully how  
and on what diatonic you play those styles, IMO--and maybe consider  
multiple diatonics and other things as well.

". Of course, I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with  
playing
chromatic or alternate-tuned harmonicas (actually, one of the most  
moving
harmonica-listening experiences I've ever had was a Richard Hunter  
set of
original compositions at Buckeye several years ago playing alternate  
tuned
harps) . . . "

In the issues I'm raising, I both make and believe that there is no  
distinction between standard major tuned diatonics and any other  
tuning.  In any Richter diatonic you still have the issue of natural  
notes and accidentals, regardless of tuning (excepting, perhaps, a  
tuning which had all the "natural notes" (ie C, D, E, etc...) as  
blows and all the sharps/flats as draws--though even here you'd have  
some serious legato issues.

"As 'brevity is the soul of wit,' I'd appreciate a quick and simple  
synopsis
. . . so my very simple mind can grasp these very deep concepts . . . "

You are not simple, you are quite intelligent.  However, if you need  
simple, the first paragraph and second paragraphs are as brief as I  
can do (brevity may be the sole of wit, but it's not something I do  
well).




  ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)