[Harp-L] re:intonation and such

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Iceman wrote:

"As they say in the Imago Couples Counseling Technique, JROSS heard  
most of what I said, but missed or forgot a few teeny weeny key  
points in his restatements."

When someone doesn't understand something I wrote, I usually blame  
myself for not being clear, not the reader.

"The "Overs" have a certain - something - missing or different than  
the "given" notes. I don't care what the technical/logical reason is.  
It doesn't matter. Just LISTEN. "

Overblows sound different than natural notes.  So do bends.  I don't  
view that as inherently good or bad, "missing" or otherwise.  Just  
that it exists.

 "When I have my students "expose it to the air" (meaning an "over"  
note - hey, even a traditional bend created note), it's another way  
of stating one of my basic teaching premises called "Long Tones".  
Sustain any problem note at great length to give yourself time to  
listen to it and change the variables in your technique and discover  
in a deeper sense how you control that sound. This is purely an  
exercise in learning all the very very subtle ways one can control  
pitch and tone."'

I see.  I suppose that's useful.  Personally I find learning things  
in context of how they will be used to be better.  But learning to  
sustain notes (of any sort) is an important thing, and if you find it  
helps with other matters, then that's something worth trying.

"By the way, I feel that one CAN use notes created with traditional  
bending techniques as seemless notes with the "givens". I first heard  
Howard Levy do it during the "Golden Years of Augusta Teachathons"  
and Paul DeLay do it live in Portland"

I've never heard anyone do it, with bends or overblows.  I've  
certainly not heard Howard or DeLay do it, though both are very good  
players with excellent bending control.  Others disagree, but as far  
as my ears tell me it hasn't even gotten close to happening yet.

"It inspired me to do it, too."

No offense, but nothing I've heard you play has had bends which sound  
the same as natural notes.  Again, not really close.

"My 4 hole inhale bend is sometimes sustained, sounds great, and then  
full throat vibrato is added. I will use it as a NOTE, not releasing  
it upwards into the 4 hole inhale, which is why someone like Phil  
Wiggins grabbed my harmonica from me at a jam at Augusta years ago to  
check and see if it was a "trick" harmonica. "

People have been using bends as notes since before World War 2.  I  
have never claimed it can't be done, nor that bends or overblows  
can't be used as musical tones and notes in a song.  Rather, my  
argument has always been that they sound different from natural notes  
and thus must be placed in such a way as to both take advantage of  
this difference and to minimize it as well, depending on what's  
needed.  What I argue against is the belief that there is no  
difference, or that the difference is merely something which  
technique can overcome--it's not.  Since the reed is behaving  
different physically, the sound will be different.  Similar (it's  
still a free reed, after all) but different from a natural note.

"Of course, the student is in the crawling phase of this  
understanding. They always seem to shy away from notes created  
through technique. THAT'S WHY I have them LEAN INTO IT, to learn NOT  
TO SHY AWAY FROM THEM. "

Fine.  I'd say better to teach them the proper context of when and  
when not to use them, but it does sound like you do that as well.   
There's no reason to shy away from any technique but rather to learn  
how and when to use them.

"My hope is that one of them, especially the younger hungry ones  
(Like RJ) will take the ball and run with it during their youthfull  
passion and discover the true Holy Grail (if it exists) of true  
seamlessness, or at least get closer to it than I did."

And this is the hope I just don't see happening.  And really, at this  
point I no longer understand it.  Created notes are made in a  
physically different manner at the reed than natural notes.  You can  
play created notes with nice timbre, good intonation and decent  
phrasing--but never the same as a natural note in terms of what you  
are doing: how you are physically making the reed behave that way.

Winslow like the trombone example, so I'll use that a bit (though  
truth be I don't know that much about trombones).  In a trombone you  
both use the slide and use overblows (the real thing, not the  
harmonica version--overblowing is a phenomena which existed before we  
used the term for what's happening in a harmonica, but the harmonica  
overblow has little relation to the wind instrument overblow, a term  
used for decades at least before the term was mis-applied to  
harmonicas) to get the notes you want.  Well, with the slide, you  
aren't changing how you make the note: you blow wind and the tube  
determines the pitch.  Now, with overblows you are blowing at a  
higher pressure and the speed of the air forces the note to jump up  
in pitch according to the harmonic series as represented in the  
tube.  So there is something different happening, and the tone is a  
bit different.  But, for the most part this difference in tone is  
heard as a difference in volume (the harmonica is one of the only  
wind instruments which can play piano in its highest register).   
Moreover,  this difference in timbre is then the same for that entire  
octave.  So the transition is smooth and ascending in volume and  
brightness throughout the range of the instrument.  It is not note-by- 
note difference within an octave area, as in the harmonica with its  
created notes.

So, the harmonica has a problem with intonation, phrasing and timbre  
of created notes versus natural notes that doesn't exist in the same  
way on most other instruments.  The question is, how to use that to  
the maximum advantage and the minimum disadvantage.  There is a  
school of thought which says that the differences are imaginary and  
so just go ahead and plow forward.  It's that school which I don't  
see as making much sense, with having a disconnect with the reality  
of both what is being played and what is physically happening when we  
play.





 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'