Re: [Harp-L] Improvising on keyboards, walking baselines ----- Was Real Musican VS. Crap - music related - no harp content

[Pierre <plavio@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

James said:

> My wife, was a classically trained pianist. She reads but she cant jam. I 
> use to beg her, I would say, give me an A Minor vamp and will show you 
> 'Summertime"
> She cant do it. If its not written down, she cant play it.
> I have another friend who plays beautiful classical guitar.  I will travel 
> anywhere to hear him. Same thing. Ask him to play "Moondance" or some 
> Flamenco and he demands some sheet music.

I think we need to understand, is that a piano player plays two instruments 
at the same time. Playing a piano is like writing one sentence on one 
computer keyboard while typing another sentence with the other hand. This is 
hard! So to make it easy (I guess), kids are taught from the age of 6 to 
read and eventually "memorize" a piece. Sheet music in a sense is a way to 
make sure you play exactly the same thing every time so muscle memory can 
kick in. After that the fingers kick in and the brain can then focus on 
dynamics, grace notes or whatever is needed to make it sound nice.

With respect to "complex" improvising on a keyboard, it is probably 
extremely difficult to do as the proper fingers must be selected to be able 
to play a musical idea without ever running out of fingers. It must be 5-10 
times harder to improvise on a piano than on a sax, unless you do it with 
one hand only. Even then it is still harder as the sax player never runs out 
of fingers, actually they never have to move them when improvising (not 
sure?). I imagine keyboard improvisers probably use learned patterns to 
avoid problems, at least they probably start that way.

The other issue for a "sheet" trained person is that they may not know how 
to compose on the fly (or not), meaning they have no idea how to put 
together a walking baseline (with their left hand) without the sheet music, 
what notes should they select, and what rhythm. Interesting because this is 
a question I have as a beginner on my keyboard.

So here is my question, I've heard lots of walking baselines ove the years, 
but what am I hearing? how does one do this? is it just arpeggios? can it be 
scaled base? is there a trick involved in moving from one chord or key to 
another? Are there any free or $$$ resources for learning this at a basic 
level?

Pierre.

PS: James, just thinking, why don't you write a few chords for her and 
express a rhythm (she can write the music for it) and see if you can get her 
to do it. For her its the next step (if she likes) to become versatile. Its 
probably a lot easier to learn to improvise when you are trained then when 
you are untrained, but the "can't do it" mindset has to go. I suspect anyone 
who tries and works at it can do it.















----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James" <wasabileo@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: [Harp-L] Real Musican VS. Crap


> You know folks, we better stop this before it gets ugly and we start 
> resorting to personal insults.Real Musician , Crap Musician what the hell 
> does it all mean.
> For me, while I am a harp player, I am first and foremost a BLUES MAN!. 
> I play music  performed  and developed by African Americans who were 
> denied formal education. that includes a musical education. Walter Horton 
> didn't read music. He didn't know micro tones or flatted fifths, but he 
> knew what sounded good and notes expressed his situation and told his 
> story. Muddy Water told the late Robert Palmer (in Deep Blues) he didn't 
> know micro tones but he knew  'bout the notes that fall between the piano 
> keys. Walter Horton was able to play Ellington's "Things isn't what they 
> use to be" and did some incredible things with "La Cucaracha" folksy 
> Mexican Dance.One can argue that if the opportunity was made available to 
> study formal music theory, they would have jumped at the chance. How it 
> would affected they playing is anyone's guess.
>                                Reading doesnt necessarily make you a great 
> musician
> My wife, was a classically trained pianist. She reads but she cant jam. I 
> use to beg her, I would say, give me an A Minor vamp and will show you 
> 'Summertime"
> She cant do it. If its not written down, she cant play it.
> I have another friend who plays beautiful classical guitar.  I will travel 
> anywhere to hear him. Same thing. Ask him to play "Moondance" or some 
> Flamenco and he demands some sheet music.
>
> I would  love to study with Richard Hunter and Robert Bonfiglio and I 
> admit they have a lot to teach me. I have the greatest respect for their 
> talents. But I will never forget  the first music I heard ,the music that 
> made pick a harp in the first place.
> BTW Larry Adler could not read music until much later in his career. He 
> was playing Hors Staccato and Rhapsody in Blue from Memory.
>
> I hope this resolves the issue.
>
> BTW Richard Hunter, your book on Jazz Harp is an excelent tool.
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