Re: Fwd: [Harp-L] dim. half whole

["Emile D'Amico" <EDAmico@xxxxxxx>]

Ok I see what caused my confusion. the half whole refered to scale steps.
Maybe this is just a philly thing but i relate to this scale whole half.
We usually relate to it being built  on the flat 9 of the dominant chord.
This used to be my favorite scale for addiing color over dominant chords
and II V .


>>> Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> 04/13/06 02:26PM >>>
Emile - 

No, Tom was talking about true diminished scales, not the melodic
minor, aka diminished wholetone.

You're correct that diminished-wholteonte refers to a way of looking at
the melodic minor scale. However, the half-step-whole-step inversion of
the diminished scale is a true diminished 8-note scale.

Here is Ab diminished:

Ab Bb B-natural C# D# E F G

It goes whole-step, then half-step, repeating this pattern
consistently.

If you start it on G, it goes half-step, then whole ,step, which is
what Tom was referring to. This gives you the Skeleton notes of G, B,
and F for the G7 chord, and adds a lot of other cool stuff. The
patternis symmetrical, so F diminished, D diminished, and B diminished
are all the same scale and any pattern you can come up with can be
repated a tritone away or a minor third above or below - lots of fun
things you can do with it.

By contrast, for the melodic minor or diminshed wholetone scale, we
would take the ascending emlodic minor on Ab:

Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F G

Only seven notes, not symmetrical, and some of the same notes as the
diminished scale. But a very different flavor overall. The reason it is
sometimes called wholetone diminished is that it has large fragemtns of
both scales:

Wholetone Cb Db Eb F G  (lacks only A natural for completeness)

Diminished F G Ab Bb Cb Db (lacks ony D and E for completeness)

To get the skeleton notes for G7 we have to voice the chord in fourths:

G Cb F - yes Cb is enharmonic with B, but the principle of fourths is
important to voicing this chord. The full voicing in fourths is
immediately recognizable as a classic sound:

G Cb F Bb Eb Ab Db

You can also spin off triads, like alternating Db major and Eb major
creeiping up and down in close voicings, another very characteristic
sound.

Winslow

--- Emile D'Amico <EDAmico@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> I think some people call this the diminished whole tone scale.
> There are some cob webs in the jazz part of my brain but i'll give it
> a
> try. Most jazz books relate this scale to the melodic minor ascending
> scale.
> You would start the scale on the 7 degree of the melodic minor.
> c#defgabc# the melodic minor would be defgabc#d.(take any major scale
> and drop 
> the third from major to minor and you've got it the melodic minor
> ascending that is.
> Most books assign the scale to be bullt over the b9 of the dominant
> chord.
>  
> Well this is my little bit of knowledge on a big subject
> 
> Emile Diggs D'Amico
> 
> 
> >>> "Winslow Yerxa" <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> 04/13/06 12:38PM >>>
> Tom - 
> 
> This is one of the classic scale substitutions in jazz. Not only can 
> you play this scale over a dominant 7th chord (the 9th, if included,
> is 
> usually lowered to accord with the scale), you can also derive whole 
> sequences of chord substitutions played either as chords or 
> arpeggiated. The obvious device of spacing the suqence by minor
> thirds 
> or tritones can often be heard.
> 
> I wrote a series of articles for harp-l on different substitute
> scales 
> over dominant chords a few yearts back; this was one of them. You can
> 
> probably find them in the archives. 
> 
> --- In harp-l-archives@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, TomEHarp@... wrote:
> 
> anybody ever get in to playing a dim half whole scale over a dom 7th 
> chord.there are onlt 3 dim scales the rest are symestrical. they are
> C 
> C# and D.
> 


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