RE: [Harp-L] Barrett Soloing Workshop, Harp Learning Materials (long)

["Bill Hines" <billhines4@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Ignore Bill.." Well, y'all can ignore me, but here's my take on what you
just said. This not a slam on you A, please don't take it that way. Just my
(strong) opinion. 

"sad...that you''ve learned all that from a book but still feel unable to
jam"  What do these books tell you - how to play single notes, how to bend.
You think you're ready to play at a jam after that, especially someone with
no prior music knowledge?? You're not ready to jam in a public environment
after completing these beginner books. However, preface that with everything
else I say below, this is *most* jams - the type in a bar, mid-large
audience of paying patrons, experienced musicians. For little informal
get-togethers, friends, campfires, and what not, yeah, go for it. 

"just practice finding out where the notes are... kind of like 5 the finger
piano exercise.."  Yeah, HELLO! Sure, I could go to a jam and just wail away
on my new do-re-mi-fa-so holes. What about bends? These are blues jams, not
the Red River Valley competition. You are always encouraged to do that
("just go play") in the happy encouraging world of make believe. But the
reality is that many (most?) jam sessions are run and participated in by pro
or semi-pro experienced musicians who damn well know the difference between
someone who knows what they are doing and a hack, "even on harp". And by
"knows what they are doing" I just mean someone who can *reasonably*
contribute and play. You don't have to be *great*, just have what I think
are the fundamental prerequisites, woodshedding and musical knowledge. You
have to at least know how to play over the chord structures and improvise a
little, and those things are HARD (and usually sound quite bad) at first. I
don't think someone who has just found where the basic notes are, or can
play those six holes, qualifies. Because I'll tell you what will happen here
in the real world - the other musicians will be upset with you, some subtly,
some not-so-subtly for "f-ing up their jam". You will see the reaction from
the house full of people in the audience (and maybe even the owner) who have
come to hear the music and if you are at the level you propose, you will
make some pretty ugly sounds and they *will* let you know, especially the
drunk ones, haha. That's no fun. Yes, there's some neurotic, anal, vain
stuff to that on my part not wanting to go up yet. Again, that's just me.
When people who are learning have bad experiences like that it just set them
back confidence-wise and it isn't any fun. I'd rather wait until I have at
least a certain skill level. I know even then I still won't be great and
will still make lots of mistakes, but they'll be in the realm of acceptable
for a novice.

"Go to a jam... don't worry what they think of you. They'll be knocked out,
especially if you do a few wah wah wahs... they'll think it's the real thing
cause they don't know any better." If the folks at your jam are impressed by
a harp player that knows those five holes and does "some wah-wah", then I
would have NO problem playing at your jam, haha. I agree there are folks who
are perfectly content to go up there and sound horrible for weeks/months
until they learn and screw everyone else that doesn't like it. I've seen
enough of them. I'm not one of them, maybe you are and that would explain
why you think I'm nuts. In fact, I go to lots of jams around the country
because I travel for work and I dislike it when someone who is very novice
gets up there in THIS type of jam (meaning one in a place where lots of
people come to hear the music, high calibre of musicians). It causes all
kinds of problems, the other musicians start bugging the jam host to not put
them up with you, etc. I just feel they should get to a certain point with
the woodshed and jam cds first. The musicians don't like it, the bar owner
doesn't like it, the jam host doesn't like it, and the audience doesn't like
it. That's *my opinion* of course, many will say if you go to a jam to
listen you get "whatever" and I agree with that for sure (but again, there's
"reality"...). 

"Firstly, the diatonic harp is dead easy. Only ten holes and you only need
half of em, 6 at the most. No manual dexterity is required..." That's just
crazy. This is a difficult instrument to play *right*. If you're saying
that, I'd love to hear you play. If that's true for you, you're either very
gifted or playing at a very novice level. Bending, tone, improvisation, all
that, to play at a level where you don't torture other people, is DIFFICULT
on this instrument. 

"forget about overblows, Dorian and Phygian modes, third position, the
'right' amp etc." AGREED!

"The technique will come to you as you make yourself express what you want
to express" Only after the proper woodshedding will *anything* 'come' to
you.

"Play over the singer..." "Go to a jam..." Yeah, practice at home playing
over the singer and then go to the jam and do that, that'll make you
popular! Better learn to duck and play (referring to being able to play and
do other things).

"Remember... you know all the notes Sonny Boy ever knew.. think he read a
book?" No, but he had been playing harp for decades, with other musicians,
when he recorded anything you ever heard of his. Much of his "simple"
phrasing is very difficult to achieve.

Geez, with those simple four steps it sounds like you may have written some
of the materials I looked at, haha. No offense/disrespect intended for any
of this, it's just opinion/debate, takes all kinds, nobody's right,
yadayada.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: akc [mailto:meadow.sweet@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:17 PM
To: billhines4@xxxxxxxxxxx; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Barrett Soloing Workshop, Harp Learning Materials
(long)

Sorry Bill, but I found this post a little sad... that you''ve learned all 
that from a book but still feel unable to jam.

Any other aspiring players out there? OK... this is all you need to do. 
Ignore Bill... then..

Firstly, the diatonic harp is dead easy. Only ten holes and you only need 
half of em, 6 at the most. No manual dexterity is required... you don't have

to do one thing with one hand and something different with the other unless 
you want to smoke a cigarette while playing.

Step one.... just practice finding out where the notes are... kind of like 5

the finger piano exercise... keep doing them till you can fairly easily know

which hole sounds like what.

Step 2. Before you're note perfect, get yourself a few harp CDs... three is 
enough, more is better... a Little Walter and a couple of compilations. Go 
through them working out what key the songs are in, then go through them a 
few times more trying to copy what the soloists are doing (Just do your best

at this.. you won't be as good as them, so don't worry about it).

Step 3. Keep playing them.. do your own fills and solos if you like, as you 
get better. Play over the singer... keep going till you feel happy that 
you're keeping up.

Step 4. Go to a jam... don't worry what they think of you. They'll be 
knocked out, especially if you do a few wah wah wahs... they'll think it's 
the real thing cause they don't know any better.

While you're doing this... get yourself a cheap mike and amp so's you can 
hear yourself properly at home.

Finally.... forget about overblows, Dorian and Phygian modes, third 
position, the 'right' amp etc.
The technique will come to you as you make yourself express what you want to

.express

Remember... you know all the notes Sonny Boy ever knew.. think he read a 
book?

Happy harping, A.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <billhines4@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:45 PM
Subject: [Harp-L] Barrett Soloing Workshop, Harp Learning Materials (long)