RE: [Harp-L] Re: Position Perception

["Dennis Alters, MD" <dennisaltersmd@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Ansel,

Thinking in terms of scale degrees rather than positions is a way to
transcend the position quagmire. Dennis Gruenling and Alan Radcliffe Holmes
have very helpful ideas on this. I am starting to become more intuitive with
this approach.

Regards,

Dennis "Doc" Alters

Dennis B. Alters, MD
Diplomate, American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology
Diplomate, American Board of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Neurology
-----Original Message-----
From: Ansel Barnum [mailto:barnum@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 9:50 PM
To: winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Harp-L] Re: Position Perception

Perhaps I was trying to articulate (albeit poorly) the obvious--namely,
that learning other positions is just plain hard for us mortals. What
makes it especially tormenting is that each position uses the very same
notes one may already be intimately familiar with from another position,
but which are now suddenly foreign only because they are played in a
different sequence. It doesn't matter if one knows second position inside
and out. Learning fourth position is like learning second for the first
time. That's what makes positions so elusive, and so maddening.

Hence my question below which sought a holistic perception of the harp
that transcends the boundaries of position playing/thinking. I don't know
if what I'm talking about is the result of mastery or hallucinogens.
Either way, your advice is unequivocal: Each position has new relations
between notes, and each relation must be learned over and over and over
again.


Thanks,


Ansel


On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 harp-l-request@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:20:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re; [Harp-L] Position Perception
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <20050304012035.70135.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Ansel Barnum writes:
>
> I was wondering how people think about the position they're playing in.
> It seems like there are two possible approaches: 1) Consider each
> position as an independent entity with its own sequence of notes or 2)
> consider each position as a mode whose sequence of notes is that of
> first position.
>
> ===================Winslow:
>
> I'm not sure what you mean here. I should point out that position and
> scale are independent. Let's say you have a C harp and you play music
> that has a tonal center of G. That makes it second position.
>
> It doesn't matter if it's G major, G minor, G dorian, mixolydian,
> whatever. As long as the harp is in C and the tonal center is G, it's
> second position.
>
> =============Ansel:
>
> On a piano, option 2) is the easy one: If you know the notes of a major
> scale, then it's trivial to play the scale in any mode (just change the
> starting note).
>
> ============Winslow:
>
> In so doing you also change the position. Let's say you choose the C
> major scale on that C harp. PLay it as Ionian mode, the tonal center is
> C, therefore first position. Let's say we choose the Mixolydian mode of
> that same C major scale. The tonal center is now G so you're in second
> position. and so on. I refer to the overall tonal center of a piece of
> music, not of momentary shifts caused by chord progressions within a
> key or the act of running up and down scale exercises using different
> starting notes.
>
> ==========Ansel:
>
>
> This is because playing the piano is a visual act, so you can see where
> your fingers are relative to the keys on the keyboard. But you can't
> see where your lips are on the harp, nor can you see the distance
> between holes (half step, whole step, no step, etc.) or where a bend
> needs to be inserted as called for by the Ionian scale. Consequently, I
> find myself using approach 1), tackling each position as a new sequence
> to learn on its own. But it seems like if someone could become so
> intimate with the notes on the harp, then they could visualize them
> like the keys on a piano and seamlessly transition from one position to
> another with ease. Is this what happens when one reaches the mountain
> top and achieves harp enlightenment?
>
> ===============Winslow:
>
> This flax weighs three pounds (never mind, a zen joke).
>
> The more familiar you get with your harmonica, the easier it gets to
> play. Part of this is knowing where all the notes are and how to get to
> them, and where all the other notes are in relation to any notes you
> may have in mind, and how to get from one place to another.
>
> Personally, I have a quasi-visual map in my mind's eye. I know Howard
> Levy sees a piano keyboard because he plays piano. Whether visual or
> not, I think it helps to have some way to map the lay of the land.
>
> Of course the points on the map look different depending on the vantage
> point created by the tonal center. In second position, 2 Draw and 6
> Blow feel like the center of things, with everything else leading to
> and from those points. In another position the focus and the vantage
> point will be somewhere else so the same points on the map will have
> different meanings.
>
> Winslow
>