Re: [Harp-L] Groove

["James Sterett" <jsterett@xxxxxxxxx>]

Great topic, Clay.  Great information, Bob.  

I had the placement of groove once described to me with a "hood ornament" approach.  Blues/Jazz is generally played just behind the "hood ornament."  (Sounds like what you said, Bob, regarding the 2 and 4.)Bluegrass (for example,) just ahead.

Talk of groove and how to find it could ultimately lead to this world becoming a better place.   


>>> "Bob Maglinte" <bbqbob917@xxxxxxxxxxx> 8/6/2005 7:28 PM >>>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clayton Goldstein" <clay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 2:25 PM
Subject: [Harp-L] Groove


> Bob,
>
> As far as defining what identifies genres of music you are probably 
> accurate.
> If you're trying to play "Blues" or create the emotional response "Blues" 
> music
> elicits, then playing a bit "behind" the groove is something to 
> concentrate on.
> If you're wondering why some blues players are getting "it" and others 
> don't
> seem to have the "feel" but the notes are correct, their relation to the 
> groove
> is a great place to look.
>
> I always simplisticly thought The Rolling Stones tried to play Blues but
> couldn't quite get it right...what they got instead, and went with, was 
> Rolling
> Stones music, which is pretty darn good and successfull in its own right. 
> My
> guitarist is brilliant, yet seems less confident on Funk grooves since he 
> grew
> up a country/rockabilly guy.  I always make sure we play some funk every 
> show,
> to get him used to it but also I like hearing his Rockabilly-esq solo on 
> top of
> a funk groove; A blues phrased solo on top of a rockabilly groove.  When 
> it's
> intentional, when mixing these attitudes and one's relationship with the 
> groove
> are explored, that's when songwriting occurs and for me, makes it just 
> plain
> fun.

The way the Stones played their blues way ahead of the beat, with much of 
the phrasing off the 1 and the 3 or the 1 and the 4, (which is often the way 
many white jusicians tend to phrase) wheras black musicians tend to phrase 
more off the 2 and the 4, which allows them to get the job done with FAR 
fewer notes, and meshes better with the groove. Most rockers think almost 
entirely from the more European influenced approach of music created from 
the top down, where melodics come first and rhythm is EXTREMELY secondary at 
best, and black musicians do that in reverse, even with very complex 
meldodic concepts of their own, and everything in black music ALWAYS has a 
more rhythmic approach to things. When I first started out, a much older, 
very experienced black musician drilled this into my brain 24/7, drove me 
crazy, but it was a VERY IMPORTANT lesson that I never forgot, and bailed me 
out many times when dealing with musicians who were unfamiliar with blues or 
any black music genre, and another thing he used to tell me was listen to 
where the drummer's 2 is at all times for your guide. In most white music 
genres, the drummer is often considered the beat, but in most black musics, 
this is FAR from the truth, as they usually tell you is that the drummer 
"dresses up" the beat and how they use their cymbols along with the rest of 
their drum kit can fool a lesser musician's ears in to thinking a tempo may 
be a lot different than what it really is, especially by the way the drummer 
uses their cymbols. It's easier to adjust to playing behind the beat if you 
phrase more off the 2 and the 4 (otherwise known as the back beat, and in 
many popular musics, ESPECIALLY black music, that's where the snare drum 
hits).
>
> It's risky, it doesn't always work, but it's never "terrible" and if done 
> with
> joy and commitment we've found our audiences refreshed by the sight of
> musician/entertainers/ trying to create something new for them tonight. 
> Of
> course if it doesn't work as well, the next song better Rock!  That's our
> challenge.  Of course, it's also fun to play Blues the way it's "meant" to 
> be.
>
> I agree, when I listen to musicans, solos and rythm work, they sometimes 
> neglect
> groove and especially DYNAMICS (using volume, loud and soft).
>
> Dynamics, there's another topic I'm sure!
>
> Clay

Clay, that is VERY true and there are a LOT of musicians who are totally 
clueless about that subject!!!!! Trust me!!!! Those are the kind of things 
that "seperates the men from the boys."

Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com 
MP3's: http://music.mp3lizard.com/barbequebob/ 


_______________________________________________
Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org 
Harp-L@xxxxxxxxxx 
http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l