[Harp-L] 'Flexible Gospel' according to Rob P (TB/Pucker)

[backbender1 <backbender1@xxxxxxxxx>]

Rob -

While I agree with quite a bit of what you're saying,
and understand one technique does NOT make a style, I
will try to clear up where I feel differently.

Also, let me say I respect what Rob says and know it
comes from years of expertise. I will try to keep what
I say to as close to "fact" as possible, and not
insert too many opinions...(can I do this?...you know
us Italians!!).

Rob is totally spot-on with his statement that 

>However, there are many styles and ways to interpret
and play "Blues" that aren't "Regimentally" dictated
by the recordings and techniques of some of the
earlier Blues Players"

Also with

>Further, there are other styles that a "Diverse
Diatonic player" should be aware of ,if they're going
to REALLY learn all the range and possibilities of
this instrument. ie: Irish, Bluegrass, Swing, Jazz,
Funk, Rock,,,, and on & on."


Though I have dabbled (with a capital "D") in Funk &
Swing with complete TB technique. 

Rob then says (here I will insert some comments)

ROB - To say you can't get BIG tone or you won't
REALLY be able to play "Chicago Style" blues if you
don't TB is absurd. 

I would disagree, if only for the fact that the
majority of the originators (if not all) of the style
were TB players. This fact will at least make this not
"absurd"  : )

ROB - "Blues" is a musical genre NOT an embouchure
technique...it's MUSIC first! 

Agreed. But this embouchure technique was used on our
instrument by (dare I say) the best players of the
genre for years, and on many of the "classic" Chicago
blues records that most still consider to be the best
examples of this style.


ROB - There is no evidence at all that TB=Better Tone.
Just listen to Sonny Terry, Lee Oskar, Junior Wells,
Paul Butterfield, Don Brooks, Charlie McCoy, Norton
Buffalo (U Blocks) all had/have "Masterful" tone and
full-bodied tone. 


I would say that I am not the only that can hear the
difference between MOST players that Pucker as opposed
to TB. I have heard the difference, and while some of
these players do have great tone, I (and some others)
do hear a difference, at least some of the time.


ROB - Just because you don't embrace a certain
technique doesn't mean you aren't playing the MUSIC
correctly, it only means you aren't copying it
"exactly" like the originator played it. It's still
blues and if played well it's just as valid as any
other rendition.


Technically agreed, but I'll refer to my answer above
concerning the embouchure being an integral part of
this style on our instrument. Playing the MUSIC
correctly, and playing your INSTRUMENT correctly for
the genre, are two different things sometimes.

Rob goes to site a Butterfiled example from "Fathers &
Sons".  I won't say Butter isn't playing Chicago
blues, and this point Rob makes is valid, and
important.

It has been my experience (and preference) that when
people refer to Chicago-style blues, they are
referring to the originators of this style...John Lee
Williamson, Rice Miller, Little Walter, Big Walter,
George Smith, Junior Wells, James Cotton. And while
Junior played a lot of puckering, the majority of the
other player's recordings are with at least mostly TB
embouchure.

Also, I am not a big fan of the "Bassman" amp Rob,
just so you know : )

Finally, Rob quotes Joe Filisko's list, that someone
else quoted (out of his class, so technically out of
context) of advantages of the two embouchures.

Below are the quotes from Joe's class and comments by
Rob & myself.


> The gospel according to Filisko (from Masterclass
TBII):
>
> Advantages for using puckering:
> 1. Instant gratification


ROB  1. Better proficiency in executing fast musical
single notes lines with intricate bends

DENNIS 1. Only better proficiency if you are not adept
at TB or you are new to TB...or don't practice playing
fast (that would be me!). VERY fast runs may be the
case, but not fast playing in general.

> 2. Greater ease in obtaining tonguing or trumpeting
effects


ROB 2. A more defining presence of each note, less
muffled or muted tone

DENNIS 2. With TB you can get a less muted/muffled
tone if you wish. Tongueing/trumpeting effects are
easier with pucker.


> 3. Greater accuracy in bending initially (?)


ROB 3. Greater accuracy in bending with more ease of
control and faster precision

DENNIS 3. Pucker does not give me any greater accuracy
or control  with bending....but it did initially.


> 4. Less friction or drag when moving around the harp

ROB & DENNIS - agreed 

> Advantages for using blocking:
> 1. Octaves and split intervals

ROB & DENNIS - YES! I agree

> 2. Effects - flutters (on & off) and trills (side to
side)

ROB & DENNIS - YES! I agree

> 3. Side switching - double embouchure (two mouths)

ROB & DENNIS - YES! I agree

> 4. Better TECHNIQUE TONE by default - Not True

>pulls and slaps are easier to  execute.. 

ROB & DENNIS - YES! I agree

> 5. Better HEAD TONE by default - tongue is
positioned better (lower
> in back)

Maybe so, but you can easily practice Pucker with a
lower back tongue
position, get the same full tone.

> 6. Better HAND TONE by default - harp is deeper in
mouth (easier to
> position hands)

ROB & DENNIS - YES!

> 7. Tongue becomes like a finger helping to better
line up with the
> holes

ROB 7. This I don't quite understand and would like an
example of??

DENNIS 7. You basically "feel" your way around the
harp with your tongue. I believe this is what he
means, and my students and myself agree completely
with this. 


OK - I am leaving for Buckeye - St. Louis Jam Camp &
Chicago today.

Sorry to go on so long, I'm sure we've done this to
death. Just wanted to lend some comments.

-Dennis Gruenling
www.dennisgruenling.com


		
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