Re: [Harp-L] Re: (Harp-L) Hello and introduction



Hiya Smoke,

First up, thanks for the note and for the kind words about my own modest playing -- much appreciated!

I guess my main reason for directing this gentleman towards a diatonic first has to do with my (some might consider 'dated') theory of <drum roll> Instant Gratification.

Let's say a couple of parents take their kid bowling for the first time when the kid is about 11 or 12. And let's say the kid has a bit of luck and rolls a couple of strikes. I reckon the parents (and friends of the kid) would probably congratulate him, pat him on the back. Instant Gratification. The kid feels good.

Next thing you know the kid is saying, "Hey, let's go bowling again! That was fun!" And by bowling again, (and yet again, and again and again,) the kid actually becomes a good bowler -- not because he's necessarily 'gifted', but because of repetition and practice.

On the other hand if a kid, on his first bowl, throws nothing but gutter balls and has no luck at all, he/she gets no gratification. That kid thinks to him/herself, "Hey, BOWLING SUCKS! <g> I never want to bowl again!!!" And because s/he never bowls again (and therefore never practices,) s/he never improves... <shrug>

To correlate it to harp, I reckon most beginners get positive feedback by being able to pick out simple melodies like "Oh Susanna" etc, right out of the shoot. And this is simply easier on a diatonic -- no question, due to the layout.

The chom (and more advanced musical idioms) can wait a bit, methinks. To a pure beginner, I think the chromatic seems more daunting and therefore more likely to make a beginner think, "This may just be too tough..." <?>

Granted there are exceptions to every rule, but I think beginners need to be positively reinforced right from the git-go -- which is why I generally recommend a diatonic as a first harp. Ya gotta learn to walk before you can learn to run...?

(I should also add that I personally can't play chrom worth a &*%$, so that fact may also enter into it...) <g>

Of course I respect alternative opinions, and welcome them. That's what makes the world go 'round!

Hope to see you at SPAH or in Europe soon, Smokey -- let's hoist a Guinness!

cheers and all best,

Tom Ball


______________________

On Apr 11, 2005, at 9:20 PM, tom ball wrote:


Hiya Smokey,

 While I might respectfully disagree, I love your analogy -- well
 thought out and indeed humorously presented.  Kudos!  :)

 cheers,
 TB

___
   Oh Jeez Tom, I wasn't being in disagreement as to which harmonica to
start out with as a GENERAL premise. That's why I placed the word
(personally) into the MUCH harder to play sentence. To understand where
I'm coming from let me use an example:
   During several of the after hours jazz gatherings at spah, buckey and
other venues, I noticed that it was QUITE difficult to maneuver the
right combination(s) of notes into the tunes with a diatonic. This is
basically due to a couple reasons.
   Reason #1 would be that while I play both harmonicas, I don't quite
have the expertise (at my level) on a diatonic to negotiate some of the
passages, tongue twisting combinations, or 'manufactured' notes as
(let's say) a Chris Michalek or Allen Holmes. I have heard them several
times and their mastery of the instrument is genuine. Although I have
played from 1955-1958 and 1983-present, I never progressed at the level
I should have. The reasons are moot, but suffices to say, I wasn't
really 'going for the gold' , so to speak.
   Reason #2 since my taste in music was more pop, jazz, Latin, show
tunes & light classical I concentrated more on harmonicas which had the
"necessary" missing notes (or at least what 'I' thought were
necessary). To that end, I am at a stage where I can sit in at one of
these fiascos and not be out of place, but it would be with a
chromatic.

  In actuality, I generally hold BOTH types when I do a number, and
since even the great Charlie McCoy uses a 'G' chromatic to start the
tune "T.D's Boogie" and then switches to a suck harp for the remainder,
I don't see it as being blasphemous. Most programs for teaching new
players have you starting out with a diatonic. I (again personally)
think this is wrong as when one moves from one key to another (which
one eventually MUST), trying to remember what notes are in what hole is
nearly impossible. To that end, I feel diatonics must ultimately be
played by 'feel'. One must get SO SO very intimate with the diat that
notes flow without any thought process being involved. It must be a
natural instinct. Also, since one must ultimately use many different
positions or modes AND do this in all 12 keys (24 if you count the
minors), diatonics are terribly difficult to master. Play..yes, but
master...don't make me laugh, I have chapped lips.

  Chromatics, on the other hand, are fairly straightforward, and with
the exception that you have to ALSO know what you're doing when you use
various keys, as long as you think in C, it's easier sailing.

Always remember that you are coming from the thinking process of Tom
Ball (a GREAT player). Don't forget that not all of us can do what I
have heard you do (with Kenny). I can do almost anything McCoy can do,
but I can't do what YOU do, and I'm not that much of a blues player. I
play clean clear Louisiana style.

  When a small boy in Trieste Italy, the only music you could get was
local Italian (nice but too many mandolins). You could get armed forces
radio out of Frankfort (mostly swing). MY (personal) favorite was radio
Praha, Wien, or Buda-Pesht. I ADORE middle european & gypsy music and
its too hard for me to do on diatonic. Ergo, I used a chromatic.

your fan smokey-joe


previous msg.

I (personally) feel diatonics are MUCH harder to learn than chromatics. Chromatics have 40/48/56/64 'residents' who ALL live at the same address year after year and never move.

   With diatonics, when you try to deliver the mail to the residents,
 you
 find there are 40 "permanent" residents and anywhere from 10 to 20
 "transient" residents who don't live at any specific address.

   You therefore have to deliver the notes to residents who live
 "behind
 the cardboard box halfway down the hall" OR "at the bottom of and
 under
 the stairwell", OR "in the broom closet behind the ice maker" OR "at
 the bottom of the elevator shaft". Finding some of these residents
 when
 you need to is a bit frustrating.

   Nay, 'I' would START with a chromatic........much much
 easier.......smokey-joe

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