Re: [Harp-L] temperament considerations

[Pat Missin <pat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Paul Bowering wrote:
>
>Having recently been made aware of the issues
>surrounding intonation options I now have some further
>questions.
>
>1) If harps in Just tuning are in tune with themselves
>but don't blend as well with equal temp instruments
>how did the harp fare for the first eighty odd years
>of its history before the introduction of the 12TET
>Golden Melody? 

The same way that, for example, other instruments deal with the fact
that the piano is generally in a stretched tuning (ie, it is sharp in
the upper registers and flat in the lower register) - by playing stuff
that sounds good and avoiding stuff that sounds bad.

>Do I understand correctly that the
>problem can be especially noticeable when playing
>along with horns. How did Butter get around this
>issue? 

It's rare that a horn section (or any other group of musicians, if it
comes to that) will play in absolutely precise Equal Temperament.
Mostly there is a sort of consensus tuning reached by everyone using
their ears - assuming of course that we are dealing with good
musicians.

>Those old blues recordings sound good to me but
>the the guitar is equal temperament no?

Not necessarily. If you listen to a lot of stuff with slide guitar, or
finger picked guitar in open tuings, often these were tuned by ear to
a given chord - perhaps JI, perhaps not. A straight barre chord on
higher frets would shift the open chord by (theoretically) a tempered
interval, but as the perfect fourth and perfect fifth of 12TET only
differ from the JI versions by a couple of cents, this is not really a
big deal. 

Even in standard tuning, guitatists will often tweak their fngering to
adjust the intonation of both chords and single notes. Plus many
guitars and pianos are simply out of tune!

A lot of music, not just blues, features voices and solo instruments
with more flexible intonation than the accompanying instruments.
Varying degrees of consonance and dissonance (as well as rhythmic
variation such as playing ahead of or behind the beat) is what makes
human music sound more expressive than computer generated music.

>2) If I want to play a combination of single note
>lines with some chording can I get away with this on
>an Equal tuned harp? 

Pianists don't let Equal Temperament stop them from playing chords! :)

>Are the chords really that bad
>and is a light temperament a better option for this.

Seriously, because the harmonica produces sustained notes with
strongly harmonic overtones, this is more of a deal than it is for
piano players. It's kind of hard to answer the question for you, as so
much of it is a mtter of taste. Some find JI harmonies to be strong
and rich, others find them to be bland and boring. There is also a
limit as to how well these things can be discussed in words without
hearing how they sound. If you haven't seen it already, you might want
to check out the section of my website that begins here:

http://www.patmissin.com/tunings/tunings.html

Really though, there is no substitute for trying these things for
yourself.

>3) Some on the list seem to imply that overblowing is
>pretty much for jazz/extended positions playing and
>therfore is more at home on an Equal harp. 

I do not consider myself a jazz player and I rarely use Equal tuned
harps, but I use overblows quite a bit.

>I hope not
>because I'd like to incorporate some overblows into a
>traditional blues context using a Just harp. 

In a lot of ways I am surprised at how few blues players use
overblows. Part of it is that the traditional styles of playing mostly
evolved without overblows, I am sure. However, I was once sent a demo
of a Spanish harp player and in one piece that was very firmly in the
John Lee Williamson style, he popped a hole 6 overblow. It was
relatively harsh and and stuck out quite dramatically in the phrase he
was playing - and it sounded great! Had he played that same note with
the same strident tone in the middle of a classical piece, or a jazz
ballad, it would probably have soudned terrible. Of course, the real
skill would be to be able to play it stridently or smoothly, depending
on the context.

FWIW, I really wouldn't want to be without that flat third in the mid
range of the harmonica whilst playing cross harp blues, but that might
just be me.

>(As an
>aside; I haven't as yet tried the Hering Vintage. How
>are they for overblowing?)

Based on very limited experience of them, I would say that like most
other stock harps, they really need to be tweaked quite a bit of
optimal overblowing.

 -- Pat.