Re: 12th position = 1st Flat Position

["G." <gigs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

- -- Hello Iceman, Wislow, et al,

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:32:13 EDT
From: IcemanLE@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 12th position = 1st Flat Position

In a message dated 6/12/03 12:04:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> This works fine if you are playing a C-harp (no flats in C major) and
> want to play in F Major (one flat in the scale).
>
> But what if you are playing F minor on a C-harp? F minor has 4 flats,
> so "first flat" is not an accurate description.

[Iceman started with a reasonable response]
At these Augusta brain storming session, we weren't concerned with creating a
textbook accurate description in a technical/music theory sense.

[G in support of Iceman's comments:]
- -- although the system is perfectly logical and works fine and if written in a
textbook with music theory it would actually fit in very smoothly.
- -- The term flat first (b1) position has nothing to do with the number of flats
in the actual key, just as saying "playing in 2nd position" has nothing to do
with the sharps or flats in the resulting key. Nor in fact if you were to say
"I'm playing the flat 3rd of this minor scale" would it make playing in Abmin a
problem.
- -- They are relative terms applied in a known and understood context, the only
confusion would be on the part of someone who hasn't learnt the basics of the
context which in itself is quite understandable and we aim to aid them here case
by case, or alternatively someone is having a mental convulsion and is in no
condition to be discussing music theory applied to diatonic harmonica and really
has much more pressing things with which to concern themselves with.

- -- As we all know positions are relative to the key harmonica you are playing
they describe where to find the tonic note and where the notes ~RELATIVE~ to
that can be found.
- -- Its pretty easy once you have your head around the basics, eg. where the
cycle of fifths fits into all this, and not to worry oneself with details such
as the absolute note names in any related scale until the appropriate moment.

- -- Actually, I have to say I'm incredibly surprised at this apparent confusion
about "first flat position on a C harp for a F minor key makes it all wrong"
thing was even raised by Winslow at all.  I mean considering Winslow's
apparently vast wealth of indepth knowledge of music theory in which, may Shiva
bless him, he indulges in sharing on an almost daily basis.
- -- What I've really wanted to know from Winslow all this time is what in
Jebediah Springfield's name happened to H.I.P.?

[IceIceBaby continues...]
We just wanted to come up with another term that would point towards an
understanding of position playing.

- -- I like this:   "<cough>Well, I prefer to play in flat eleventh position for
the most part.<smarmy smarter than y'awl smirk>"

8<
"Cross Harp" playing does not mean that the harmonica or the player is angry,
but is a word describing a certain approach to orientation on the diatonic.

- -- Just to digress a minute here.
- -- I've heard "cross harp" described as a term that means to play in any
position other than 1st position, as in you are playing ~aCross the harp~, as
opposed to playing straight (1st position).
- -- So originally it may never have meant playing in 2nd position.  I mean if you
think about it the instrument started out being played as it was intended... 1st
position, and I very much doubt anything else considering the culture and their
choice of music it came from.
- -- I know the early history of the instrument is pretty murky and definitely far
from conclusive and all, however its not a far fetched assumption that when one
brother was asking the other brother how the hell he got those notes out of the
harp, that the other brother would think for a minute and just come out with "I
be playin' 'cross de harp, y'know?" or something... guess it depends how far you
take it back as to how they would actually say it. I'm the first to admit I
don't know that much about the local lingo in USA during the turn of the 20th.C.
Ok my minutes up.

[IceDude...]
So, "1st Flat Position" is another way of describing an orientation that is
equal to 12th position. "2nd Flat Position" is 11th position, and so on....

- -- Just as you can choose to say "its 1:50" or "its 10 to 2", its all really
quite simple when one takes pause to actually apply ones noggin to the matter.

The Iceman

- -- The G chord.