Re: QQRe: Jazz on diatonic, was Re: Dying artform

[Jeff Walenta <jeffwalenta@xxxxxxxxx>]

i'll try not to dip to off topic 


i think that in the case of out to luch ..and
especialy the first track (hat and beard) it was
demonstrating the spirit of free jazz if nothing else
but for dolphy's playing but you are right ..dolphy
seemed to never want to abandon rhythm all together
...i have a hard time throwing dolphy completly into
avante garde because it seems like he cared alot less
about the politics of the music and way more about the
music itself ...just my take on it 

anyway ...waiting and hopeing someone out there with
the drive and ability does something along those lines
with harmonica...but there is room for everything in
music so maybe my wait won't be too long ...and hell
maybe my playing will improve ...(yeah right ) 






- --- TD <sixtiesjazz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> While Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" - one of my very
> favorite albums - is
> certainly Avante Garde, it is not really Free Jazz.
> In fact the songs are
> actually very tightly composed. Dolphy himself
> stated that what he did
> improvisationally was never without reference to the
> chord structure. He
> definitely pushed those chords  farther than most.
> Dolphy was, however on
> the seminal recording of that style: Ornette
> Coleman's "Free Jazz". Here's a
> nice piece of free jazz trivia: Q: What player plays
> on both "Free Jazz" and
> Coltrane's later free masterpiece "Ascension". A:
> Trumpeter Freddie Hubbard
> (he's also on "Out To Lunch" by the way).
> 
> I've never heard a harmonica doing Free or Avante
> Garde (or New Thing) but
> there is no reason why it couldn't be used. Most
> players playing these
> styles today are fringe or European (grin). All who
> I have  heard have a
> virtuoso command of their instrument. I could
> definitely see a guy like
> Henry Threadgill using a Harmonica on one of his
> compositions someday as he
> seems to use just about every other instrument known
> to man. In fact on an
> album he did with his band "Air" in the 70's he used
> a Chinese Mussette on a
> composition called "Air Raid" to make the sound of
> an air raid siren.
> /tim
> sixtiesjazz@xxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Walenta" <jeffwalenta@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Jazz on diatonic, was Re: Dying artform
> 
> 
> >
> > i got this from the all music guide
> www.allmusic.com
> >
> >
> > Free Jazz
> > genre: Jazz
> > Dixieland and swing stylists improvise
> melodically,
> > and bop, cool, and hard bop players follow chord
> > structures in their solos. Free Jazz was a radical
> > departure from past styles, for typically after
> > playing a quick theme, the soloist does not have
> to
> > follow any progression or structure and can go in
> any
> > unpredictable direction. When Ornette Coleman
> largely
> > introduced free jazz to New York audiences
> (although
> > Cecil Taylor had preceded him with less
> publicity),
> > many bop musicians and fans debated about whether
> what
> > was being played would even qualify as music; the
> > radicals had become conservatives in less than 15
> > years. Free jazz, which overlaps with the avant
> garde
> > (the latter can use arrangements and sometimes
> fairly
> > tight frameworks), remains a controversial and
> mostly
> > underground style, influencing the modern
> mainstream
> > while often being ignored. Having dispensed with
> many
> > of the rules as far as pitch, rhythm, and
> development
> > are concerned (although it need not be atonal or
> lack
> > a steady pulse to be free jazz), the success of a
> free
> > jazz performance can be measured by the
> musicianship
> > and imagination of the performers, how colorful
> the
> > music is, and whether it seems logical or merely
> > random. - Scott Yanow
> >
> > check out Eric dolphy- Out to lunch
> >
> > for the best exsample of what free jazz/free
> > improvisation is
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- the Leones <leone@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Listen
> > > >>  > > i haven't heard much done live beyond
> blues
> > > ...i
> > > >>>  would
> > > >>>  > love to see what could be done with the
> > > harmonica
> > > >>>  in
> > > >>>  > avant garde/ free jazz
> > > >>  >
> > > >>  >
> > >
> > >
> > >      Someone please "define" avant garde &/or
> free
> > > Jazz............smo-joe
> > > --
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