Re: BILL'S THEORY-questions

[Bill Long <LONGWJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>Date: 19 Nov 92 19:38:18 EST
>From: WYKS@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: BILL'S THEORY-questions
>Subject: Reply to Bill; his questions in brackets.

Thanx for the reply Steve.  I'll see if I can clear up what I was talking
about...

>I'm new at this networking Bill; but here goes.  Umm, how do you see
>conventional music theory notation as ADDRESSING (I can't underline) the
>question of harmonica "positions."  Are there other instruments that the
>term "positions" is used for, and how are positions there defined?  (I
>think I heard a sax player once refer to positions; but I'm not sure)
>You're question presupposes this:  I'm from Missouri.  At any rate,
>the conventional labeling does not ignore music theory; it is based on the
>circle of fifths, as Dick explained in todays missive.

ok. Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do. If you're like me you just heard a diatonic
scale in your head and unless you have perfect pitch your scale probably
didn't start on A (440 Hz).  Its common to use the key of C for examples as
there are no accidentals (sharps or flats) in C.  On a piano that means you
play the C scale using only white keys.  Now if I want to play a diatonic
scale in D, I start on D but I need 2 sharps in this key signature (F#, C#)
But if I start on D and play the scale using the key of C then the third
and seventh step of the scale would be down a half step from where the
diatonic scale wants them to be.  This is the Dorian mode.  A II chord
would include the notes Re, Fa, and La and would be a minor chord (remember
we're in the key of C so a I chord would be Do, Mi, Sol and be a major
chord).  A III chord would use the notes Mi, Sol, Ti and would also be a
minor chord.  A IV chord would use the notes Fa, La, Do and would be major.
A V chord would use Sol, Ti, Re and also be major.  A VI chord would use La
Do, and  Mi and would be a minor chord.  A VII would use the notes Ti, Re,
and Fa and would be a diminished chord.  Using this notation, if you change
keys, say to E major then E becomes the I chord (Do, Mi, Sol with Do now
being the new tonic note E). As to how I relate this to positions on a harp
when I'm playing in the key stamped on the harp I am in I for that key.
When I play crossharp then I'm in V of the key stamped on the harp.  If I'm
playing melodies with the 4draw as tonic then I'm in II of the key stamped
on.  When using the 5blow as the tonic then I'm in III of the stamped key
and finally when using 6draw as the tonic then I'm in VI of the stamped key
I guess I just find it easier to think of the positions in terms of the
interval of the stamped key to the key I'm playing in as opposed to
counting my way around the circle of fifths or fourths.

As for whether folks use "positions" on other instruments, on guitar I know
there are three ways to play an open Dmaj chord in different positions up the
neck (there are alternate "positions" for other chords as well).  For brass
instruments there are "alternate fingerings" to some notes (like on trumpet
you can play the G above middle C open [pressing down no valves] or using 1+3).
I'm not sure for woodwinds but they do have some alternate fingerings and some
of those may actually require an actual shift of the hand positions over the
keypads.

>[[in III the second step of the scale is a half step lower than it should be
>(I just avoid playing that note).]]
>
>Reply:  Well, On your D-harp example, in your "III", isn't the second step
>G#?  Why isthat a half step lower than it should be?  Can't you just bend 2-
>draw (A) a half-step, to G#?  Or am I misunderstanding you?

well, on my D harp, playing in the III of D puts me in the key of F# (F#
being the third step of the D scale).  If I want to play a blues scale (what I
call a "blues scale" is the same as a diatonic scale but with the third and
seventh notes flat by a 1/2 step...same as the dorian mode) the notes I'm
looking for are F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, and F#.  What the harp gives me
(straight notes now) are F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E, and F#...more like a natural
minor scale with the second note a half step flat...you're right about bending
the 2draw down but if you're in the upper octave the 5draw will be out of the
key signature.

{ Question and Answer about bending and overblowing deleted }
I quess I should have hung around with other harp players more when I was
growing up...the first I ever heard of this overblowing stuff was on this
list within the last week or so...can't wait to blow out some reeds trying
it!!!  I used the term bending in my question to mean any method of
altering the pitch a reed vibrates at.  I see now that there is a whole
system of stylized jargon I'll have to learn....my hitch-hiker's best
friend will never be the same!

>[[Oh, and I'm playing my new GM (key of D) and when I bend the draw#6 no
>problem but trying to bend the draw#7 and I lose the note]]
>
>ANSWER: forget it, I say (correct me out there if I'm wrong), unless you
>just want some microtonal effects.  6draw is the highest draw bend to get a
>full half-step out of.)

I quess so...on a D harp anyway.  But if I were playing a G harp wouldn't I
be able to draw-bend notes up to the 8draw?

>I'm glad to have found people who want to discuss harp theory, and relate it
>to music theory.  Four years ago I talked with Junior Wells about an hour
>between sets.  I was just beginning, and asked for tips.  He blew a lick,
>handed it back, and asked me to repeat it.  He listened to me try, and said:
>"You just know second position.  You gotta learn third, and then fourth, and
>then fifth."
>
>Steve Wykstra, Calvin College.

Cool story!  Thanx again for the reply and again I apologize for being so
wordy.  Say, I've always wanted to sew 12 pockets on a tee-shirt or belt or
something and then get a 10-hole harp for each of the 12 tones...would be
great for jamming...anyone ever do something like that?  (well gee, at
about $25. a pop for golden melodies it would cost me $300. to fill that
shirt up :^( )

Another queston:  Long ago I got a chromatic in C and fooled around with it
but never really got the hang of it.  I got the impression that the easiest
key to play blues on it was in Eb.  Is this true and is there a good method
book out there for chromatics?

Bill Long  -- still sucking and blowing --
SUNY at Plattsburgh      longwj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx