[Harp-L] The "newest" Stradivarius of Harmonicas!

[Vern]

If it is the attitude of the player towards the material that makes a difference, I reckon that it is easier and cheaper to change one’s attitude than to change the comb material.

The wager isn’t a gamble if you can really hear differences in comb materials. Gambling is betting on something whose outcome cannot be known ahead of time.

Vern


> On May 7, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Joseph Leone <3n037 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I asked this same question when I came onto the list about 20 years ago.
> 
> "But, does reed material(s) make a difference to the player?" For, it seems to me that IF a player COULD discern a difference, AND that difference made the player more comfortable,
> then maybe, just maybe, it WOULD be advantageous for said player TO use that different material. Inasmuch as from a psychological point of view, the player may be more at ease. 
> Feeling, maybe even incorrectly, that said material that they felt was ..SWELL..was actually making a difference. So I conclude that even if materials made NO difference at all, it's all
> in the EAR of the beholder. There are 7.4 billion people on Earth. Not everyone can agree. 
> 
> I never considered the $1,000.oo wager. As I am a recovering compulsive gambler. 
> 
> smokey-joe 
> 
> On May 7, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for posting this. I like the idea of a challenge with a prize, it’s like the James Randi $1 million for proof of paranormal things that has also never been claimed.
>> 
>> This speaks to how the material for the reeds are indistinguishable to the listener’s ear but my question, as the ultimate beginner around here, is, does reed material make a difference to the player? Are some materials easier to do some things than others from the person playing’s perspective?
>> 
>> HH,
>> cdh
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 7, 2016, at 3:02 PM, MundHarp at aol.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well said Vern!
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 07-May-16 7:53:46 P.M. GMT Daylight Time, jevern at fea.net 
>>> writes:
>>> 
>>> IF the  listeners have any way of knowing what comb material is being 
>>> played, or if  the statistical sample is small, then the comparison is 
>>> meaningless.  
>>> 
>>> In three separate comparisons at SPAH over a number of years,  listeners 
>>> and players could not distinguish among comb materials as different  as brass 
>>> and balsa wood.  In all of the tests, players and listeners  thought that 
>>> they heard different sounds when the same harmonica was played  several times 
>>> in succession.  Great pains were taken to keep the  comparison blind and to 
>>> eliminate spurious variables, but to give listeners a  fair opportunity to 
>>> demonstrate their ability to distinguish among comb  materials.
>>> 
>>> Some complained about the conditions of the tests AFTER the  results were 
>>> known.  Among about 100 participants in these tests, not one  has done better 
>>> than random guessing.  Some participants claimed that  they heard 
>>> differences even when their recorded choices indicated  otherwise.  Some attended the 
>>> test and said that they heard differences  but declined to participate by 
>>> recording their choices.  Almost everyone  claims to hear differences.  So 
>>> far, no one has been able to demonstrate  that ability under controlled 
>>> conditions. Materials effects are a cherished  myth.
>>> 
>>> You may be a challenger in my years-old offer of a $1000  wager.  You win 
>>> or lose the grand if you can or can’t distinguish between  any two comb 
>>> materials of your choice in a blind comparison..  Putting  one’s money where one’
>>> s mouth is brings wonderful clarity to this  question.  There have been no 
>>> challengers in the 15 years that the  challenge has been open.  There is no 
>>> moral question because it is not  gambling. If you really can recognize 
>>> materials by their sound, it is merely  taking my cheerfully-paid money and 
>>> shutting me up. It would worth $1000 to me  to learn that I am wrong.
>>> 
>>> Your notion that tone can be different for  the player but not the audience 
>>> seems strange to me.  If the audience  can’t tell the difference, why does 
>>> it matter?  IF the tone is affected  by comb material, that is the same 
>>> whether you are playing and listening or  only listening.
>>> 
>>> Vern
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 7, 2016, at 6:59 AM,  Michael Rubin 
>>> <michaelrubinharmonica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Vern,
>>>> At the risk of opening up a can of worms, I participated in the  comb 
>>> test at SPAH where Tom Halchak had me and many other harp players play  the 
>>> same brand of harp with different combs.  I definitely noticed  differences in 
>>> tone.  He gifted me with a special comb, I think it was  brass and it was a 
>>> favorite harp for a while.  A reed broke and it is  somewhere in the 
>>> graveyard, but I should dig it up and put the comb on a stock  harp.
>>>> 
>>>> Just my opinion, comb affects tone, if only for the  player.  Many 
>>> audience members stated they also heard variety.
>>>> Michael Rubin
>>>> michaelrubinharmonica.com  <http://michaelrubinharmonica.com/>
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, May 7, 2016  at 1:24 AM, Vern <jevern at fea.net 
>>> <mailto:jevern at fea.net>>  wrote:
>>>> Oh pshaw, Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> I share your skepticism about  the features touted on the website.  I 
>>> have the following questions and  comments:
>>>> 
>>>> * Individual channel covers for each reed.   Many years a ago I had a 
>>> Hohner 2016 with that feature.  I could not  perceive any special effect.
>>>> 
>>>> * Brass comb and channels plus  SS covers.   It must weigh a ton.
>>>> 
>>>> * Comb material  doesn’t affect tone.
>>>> 
>>>> * Accordion-style individual  reedplates.   Has the hole-spacing grown to 
>>> accommodate this  feature?
>>>> 
>>>> * IF so and with cross-tuning, the button travel  could be very long.
>>>> 
>>>> * Details smaller than half a wavelength  won’t affect the direction or 
>>> reflection of the sound.  That stuff about  chamber shapes is pure BS.
>>>> 
>>>> * If a group of listeners can tell  the difference between Psardos and 
>>> Hohner Super 64s under the controlled  conditions of a blind comparison, then 
>>> we can start thinking about paying $2k  for a harmonica.
>>>> 
>>>> * What about valves?  They are the  things most in need of improvement in 
>>> chromatics.
>>>> 
>>>> Vern
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 6, 2016, at 9:50 PM, Robert Coble  <robertpcoble at hotmail.com 
>>> <mailto:robertpcoble at hotmail.com>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just received an email from  one Ron Wishnak touting the Psardo 
>>> Chromatic 64. You too can pre-order for  only
>>>>> $200.00 down payment, with the balance due and payable once  it is 
>>> actually manufactured at some point in the
>>>>> future. The  Silver Elite lists for "only" $2195, and the Gold Bar for 
>>> "only" $2695. Get on  the priority pre-order list
>>>>> now, and for "only" another  $2,000-$3,000 you too can be one of the 
>>> first in line to. . .complain to the  BBB about
>>>>> non-delivery?!?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> No offense to Mr. Wishnak, who is probably a very well-intentioned  
>>> businessman. Why do I envision him playing
>>>>> his innovative new  line of harmonicas on an old tune called "The Road 
>>> to Hell is paved with Good  Intentions."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Link to the money quote:  http://www.philharmonicas.com/preorder.html  
>>> <http://www.philharmonicas.com/preorder.html>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why do I have an uneasy feeling I've seen something similar  before?!? 
>>> Calling Brad Harrison. . .
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If  Mr. Wishnak is legitimate, I apologize in advance, but I would 
>>> think that if  he is familiar with the prior marketing
>>>>> of the B-Radical, he  would eschew this business model.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Crazy  (but not crazy enough to anticipate or participate by sending 
>>> good money after  bad) Bob
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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